The Talent Forge: Shaping the Future of Training and Development with Jay Johnson

Small Changes, Big Results: Inspiring Behavioral Shifts with Leadership Coach Tabatha Thorell

• Jay Johnson • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Are you ready to unlock the secrets of effective leadership while improving your overall well-being? Join us on this episode of the Talent Forge as we chat with Tabatha Thorell, a seasoned coach boasting over 16 years of experience. Tabatha's unique journey from group fitness coaching to personal development and leadership training is packed with insights. Discover how she overcame her initial resistance to traditional counseling, and learn how her diverse ventures, including real estate and direct selling, have influenced her innovative coaching methods. We also dive deep into the critical importance of communication and listening skills in understanding clients' motivations.

Ever wondered how physical health impacts your leadership capabilities? We explore the vital connection between simple health practices and effective leadership with Tabatha. From proper hydration and nutrition to stress management and sleep, you'll gain actionable tips to enhance your mental clarity and leadership performance. We also tackle the often-ignored gap between knowing what to do and actually doing it, emphasizing that true leadership requires a holistic approach to well-being. You'll walk away with practical strategies to integrate wellness into your daily routine and improve your strategic thinking and stress management skills.

Motivating action and fostering behavioral change can be a challenging endeavor, but Tabatha provides a roadmap to success. By understanding that people are driven more by the desire to avoid pain than to seek pleasure, you'll learn how to guide leaders and CEOs toward meaningful action. We discuss the effectiveness of baby steps, consistent reinforcement, and the power of rewards in maintaining progress. Finally, we explore the transformative role of forgiveness in personal and professional growth, and how it can elevate your coaching effectiveness. Don't miss this powerful conversation that promises to enrich both your personal and professional life.

Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com

Jay:

Welcome everybody to this episode of the Talent Forge. We are excited with our guest today, Tabatha Thorell. And welcome to the show, Tabatha.

Tabatha:

Thank you so much, Jay, for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Jay:

So, Tabatha, I've gotten to dive into your background a little bit. I'd love for you to share that with our audience, to give an idea of who you are, where you're coming from, and then we'll dig into your approach to coaching, which is obviously one of the big pieces of talent development that you've been working with entrepreneurs, real estate agents and a number of others. So go ahead and give us a little bit of your background.

Tabatha:

Yeah, so I have been in the. I've been coaching in some way shape or form for about 16 plus years, but I started working for other people doing like group coaching. I started in the fitness world, but my background I went to college for kind of the best way I could explain it is like pre-counseling, it was marriage and family studies, because I knew that the family unit, and especially the husband wife, the marriage, when that was good, everything else seemed to be good and so I just wanted to help mend that. But when I was in college my advisor told me hey, just so you know, by the time that marriages come to us for guidance, it's usually too late and I'm a very results driven person. So I was like what? I'm not going to go get my master's or my doctorate if we're not going to help these people. So I kind of took a step back.

Tabatha:

I had been dating my high school sweetheart since I was 15. We knew we'd get married. We had already been investing in real estate and I was like, let me just see where this goes. We got married, moved back to his hometown and an opportunity to group coach exercise came available and I was like, yes, I love this and it just kind of morphed into I was doing that and then nutrition, and then I started with a direct selling company and because I grew so fast in that company, they invested in us for leadership training and so that's where I really found like personal development and leadership and I was like, oh, I'm home, like I love this.

Tabatha:

Because as much as I loved fitness, what I loved about fitness wasn't just the results. I mean, of course I was a mom and I wanted to look good in a dress, but I loved the mind transformation. I loved when I exercise my endorphins, my serotonin. I was a better mom, I was a better wife, like all the areas. But I didn't understand what I didn't know. So I just kind of knew I liked it. And so when I came into this personal development world, I it was like meshing, my counseling, like what I wanted to do for people, but then also I had a desire to make a really nice income because I came from lack, and so it kind of married those two.

Tabatha:

And then over the years I just have such a heart to help people that if anybody came to me and said, hey, Tab, can you help me in this area, I'd be like, ok, I'll do whatever I can. And that's like you know, if it was like relationships or starting a business from scratch, cause I had done that Like I just if it was helping a mom get over her whatever transformation, personal development I just kind of coached alongside of that and I just learned things along the way. It was a lot of trial and error because I did not have a background in business, um, even doing the real estate stuff. My husband was predominantly the leader of that. So I was just kind of behind the scenes on that Um and just getting him to take action, cause that's where he kind of struggled, he knew it all but it was kind of analysis, paralysis. So I'd kind of push him to be like, yeah, let's buy that house, let's do this thing, you know that's what a good coach does, right?

Tabatha:

Yes, Right, I know I was coaching him at the time and yes, Right, I know I was coaching him at the time. And then we just I just learned the skills and techniques and I just invested in a lot of different programs and effective communication because I felt like communication was my gifting. But I had to hone that skill. Even though it was natural for me, I still had to hone it for my audience and my clients that I was serving.

Jay:

So let's dig into it. There's a lot to unpack there. The one thing that I really loved is, as you were mentioning, you know, training people in personal fitness, and obviously the results are great. But it's that aha moment. It seems to me like that's what I was kind of drawing and I went through a personal fitness from a nearly professional hockey player into a not a hockey player into a, you know, still eating like a hockey player. I had to completely shift my mindset. So you know, this show is really about helping people achieve behavioral change with whoever they're training and coaching and engaging with.

Jay:

So how was it? What skills did you really? Develop in that fitness space that got people to make changes when it was necessary for them to make changes.

Tabatha:

Well, first and foremost, I had to learn how to listen and really, like I'm a passion person, I'm a go-getter. So if somebody tells me they have a goal, I'd just be like in the beginning I just like, yeah, let's go, let's do it and do all the things you know, and almost like fire hose them. And I had to tone that down and just listen to the why. Like why are they wanting this? Like, why do you want to look good in that skinny dress, like you know that little black dress? Why do you want whatever it was that you want? So I had to ask the right questions.

Tabatha:

So learning that skill of like asking the right questions without feeling like you're like bantering them right, like, what do you want? What do you want, you know? Cause at first it was hard for me because I felt like intrusive. You know, if I ask these questions, they might think that I'm being nosy or you know all these things that I grew up with. Like don't ask too many questions, Just be. Like nobody wants a busy buddy, you know. So I had to learn to like, okay, I'm asking this cause I care.

Tabatha:

And then just listening, like asking the question and just listening. And then what I found was they would kind of like talk themselves into it because they were selling themselves and a lot of times they didn't even know. They just were like you know, maybe their marriage was broken and they wanted to turn their husband's eye, but they were too embarrassed to say that or whatever. So it was kind of like that therapeutic thing, cause they just they would do it and I would just really listen. But then what was different between like me and like a therapist, other than just listening? It was like, okay, this is what you want.

Tabatha:

So then this is the roadmap, this is how you can change it. If you really want it, then this is what it takes and it's going to be hard, but we're always going to come back to this conversation. Right here, you're gut wrenching why you want to do this, because it's going to get hard and just showing them that but also pulling out in them and believing in their potential. A lot of adults we've abandoned that, like I don't know that I really can't do it because I didn't follow through on this, you know. And so just giving them things that they were victorious on and saying, if you can be victorious on that, you can be victorious on this. It's just at a different level or a different scale.

Jay:

And that's a big thing that actually we've been talking about on this show is doing an effective needs analysis, and a lot of times for a training program or for a coaching program, we end up accepting that first. This is what I want, without really asking those secondary questions. I want to be better at sales. Okay, well, I could teach you sales techniques, but if you already know the techniques, really do I need to teach you confidence? Do I need to teach you communication? And asking those important questions is such an essential piece for trainers, coaches, consultants that are trying to get to that sort of deep down motivational why so? I love that you brought that in there. Let's kind of fast forward in your career. Let's get to that leadership coaching. What lessons were you able to take from sort of that fitness space and bring it into helping businesses, entrepreneurs, investors really succeed in that leadership world?

Tabatha:

Well, I'd always bring like the nutrition and the physical aspect, just like surface level, be like hey, you know what you need to move, you need to hydrate, you need to fill your body with good things. Even if you're eating junk, at least add some good stuff, Like those were always things. Because it just seemed like when I was talking with people, if you have something too rigorous, like they just didn't want to do it, you know. And so it was like hey, if you want to be a bit a better leader, you have to think clearly and in order to do that, you need to, you know, do these little things. So I always brought that aspect into it a little bit and said you know, if you don't want to do that, but this is gonna, if you want to be a good leader, be here. If you want to be a great leader, you need to up that level, and there's little things that you can add to that that are going to make it better, Like you said, without learning another skill, because a lot of people it wasn't that they needed to learn another skill.

Tabatha:

They needed to take what they already had and like hone in on it and like make it superpower, and so a lot of times it was just like getting enough sleep, learning how to de-stress, you know, adding some, just even a little bit of fruits and vegetables or a little bit of supplementation to help that body flush out the toxins so they can think clearly. Because, remember, a leader's number one asset is their mind right, it is not physical. A leader should be the one who isn't doing the physical. They are constantly using their mind. So the best way to do that is de-stress, right, nutrition, right, supplementation, thinking clearly, doing those things so that they are an effective leader.

Tabatha:

And sometimes, especially if they haven't had the, you know, if they're just very like I say, book smart leader. You know they went to college, they did the right things that made them seem like they're a good CEO or whatever. That is a lot of book smart. But setting back and saying it's not just the book smart, it's how you can develop your mind to be going and leading on a bird's eye view all the time, without this overwhelming stress, and that's really in control. That's doing the best that you can do and trusting your team to do it and they're going to fail and all of those. You know different things, but investing in the mind, but that also means investing in the body, and so the fitness and nutrition thing just naturally went to there. Let me dig in.

Jay:

Let me dig in real quick. So you know one of the things and cause. I want to go even a little bit deeper on that question and here's why I just recently did a talk about the five reasons talent development's failing and one of the things I said you know, at the beginning of that talk was how many of you eat. You know five servings of vegetables every day and you know some of the audience raises their hand. And then I said how many of you get seven and a half hours of sleep? And some of the other audience raises their hand. And then how many of you go to every one of your doctor's dentist appointments, how many of you get 30 minutes of exercises a day and various hands are going up here and there. And then I asked how many of you do all of those things? And you know virtually nobody's hand goes up. I think like one or two people. And I was just like bullshit liar.

Jay:

But, the point of the whole aspect was we may know something, but that doesn't mean that we're going to act on it. So I want to dig in. How did you get them to act on these things? What were your strategies for? Okay, we know we have to do these things, but what is it that actually gets us from knowledge to action? Do you have any tactics or tips that you can share there?

Tabatha:

Yeah. So I think you have to go with what natural human nature is Okay. So, like for me, because of my background, it was like I did know a little bit about like human psychology and that's one of the things I just nerd out on, like I just love it Right. So as humans, we will do more to avoid pain than get to pleasure. So whenever you're talking about I don't care if it's a CEO or if it's mom or dad, whatever you have to show them, if you don't do these things, this will happen and you have to train your brain into looking at that as like full proof, true reality.

Tabatha:

So for me, I knew if I was teaching these people, I had to do it myself. So I always go back to my mom had an autoimmune disease, so she was sick my entire life. Now does that mean that I'm going to get an autoimmune disease? No, but in my head I'm like if I don't do these things, then I will get that right, like I will be in pain. It might not be an autoimmune disease, but just being obese or overweight or whatever is going to cause me pain. So I have to do this preventative health now. So when you're talking with anybody coaching anybody, or leaders, getting them to move. You have to look at this like this is a not, a not, this is a non-negotiable like. You have to do this because otherwise you're going to get to your end result your million dollar company, your, whatever your goal is and have a heart attack.

Tabatha:

Exactly, you're not going to be able to enjoy it and your brain is going to be so brain fog that you're not even going to be able to remember your grandkids name. And I teach this right now with legacy wealth, like, what legacy do you want to leave If you're working so hard right now but you have not built connections with the people that matter the most to you? It doesn't matter how much money you leave them, because they won't care. So you have to show that person right now. And then you have to give them baby steps. Cause here's the thing If you don't have, you've never done those things. It's overwhelming Like the list that you gave is overwhelming If you're not used to that.

Tabatha:

And people who only get six hours of sleep they're thinking that hour and a half I could get this done, I could get this done, I could get this done. So you have to show them, because that's where I'm at like with sleep, because I have five kids, so it's like sleep is one of those things that it's like right, and so I have to show. I have to see sleep as such an asset, as if I was adding a hundred thousand dollars to the bottom line, and especially with leaders and CEOs because they're driven, so you have to speak their language and speak with them, not at them. You can't say you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this. What I found was most effective is saying these are the things that help you get to this result, which is your pleasure. Right, like. And so that's intriguing. They're like okay, yeah, I got that. Like, that's cool. The opposite is true.

Tabatha:

When you don't do these things, this is what you're going to get, is this what you want right now? And then, a lot of times, you have to do visualization. Like I tell them remember that one time you had that flu and it got you. Now you know you couldn't work for a week, you felt horrible. Like I want you to visualize what that felt like. And getting them in that place and saying, if you don't take a hold of this action right now, you're going to feel like that more days than not because your body's going to start shutting down, you know. And just getting them in that position to feel it.

Tabatha:

And then, as a coach, if you're working with them weekly or monthly, taking them back to that place, because they're going to go back until they make it a habit. They're going to, they're going to be yeah, I'm going to do it. They're going to do it for two days, that they're not Right. So you just have to like, keep layering and just saying baby steps. So maybe it's like okay, you went from six hours to six and a half, just give me six and a half hours. And then when they do that, reward, like reward, reward, and then continue like, okay, let's do six hours and 45 minutes. You know, depending on the person, it's like that baby step. It's just like if you were telling someone who had to lose a hundred pounds you're not going to say you have to lose that in a month, you're going to take it.

Jay:

That's the mountain way too big. Yeah, and that's the goal, and it's good to have a big vision.

Tabatha:

Right, like it's good to have that big vision and I like that. But then, okay, this month I just want you to consume you know X amount of water and add this amount of supplements and sleep this much, like that's it. And maybe introduce like a 10 minute de-stress walk where literally you don't have your phone, you don't have headphones, nothing. You go out nature if you can and just walk for 10 minutes, like everybody has 10 minutes, or you might as well be dead right, like doing those things and speaking their language with them. And again, that it's for them, it's not at them. You're not here to judge them. You're not here to say this morning routine is going to make you a million dollars. It's, this morning routine is going to make whatever life you build so much more amazing.

Jay:

It's going to open up some doors and to kind of wrap that where I'm hearing a couple of different tactics there. Number one is small measures, step-by-step. Instead of trying to tackle the entire mountain, take those first set of steps. So I love that as a tactic. The second one that I was drawing out of there is really getting to that underlying motivation, so what it is that they are passionate about, and then sort of drawing the line of if you want to be successful in that space, this is the pathway and this is how you need to go about it. We're going to start small, but we're going to get you to that point.

Jay:

And then, if I can, the last one is really focusing on shifting their mindset a little bit of Not only is there pros to doing this, but here's all the cons if you don't do this. And really kind of coming at that from two different things, would that adequately sort of sum up those tactics there? Awesome, oh yeah, those are definitely tactics that we could take into a training space, into a coaching space that I think would be really valuable for us to think about as we're designing a training or a program or anything else. So let's continue and continue down that leadership so you get them sort of in that mindset, you get them motivated towards doing some of those essential things for self-care. What's your next step in creating behavioral change, Tabatha?

Tabatha:

Like I said, you have to have that. Why that? That for them, what really motivates them and I know Tony Robbins talks about this, jim Rome talks about this you have to know what influences that person. So when you're working with them, especially like a high level entrepreneur, you I mean there's certain personality characteristics that they've done studies on, like almost every high level entrepreneur, business owner, ceo doesn't matter Like there are certain things that drive them and personality characteristics. You have to be willing to match that as a coach. So you might not naturally be like that, but when you're a coach and you're going like you're working with someone, you have to be able to match that and know what influences them and know what motivates them. Because I think it's Tony Robbins. He said motivation's like a bath, you just need it every day, but like it's not going to stick, like one day of motivation isn't going to last a lifetime. You have to really have it daily. And so you as a coach, bringing that to the forefront to them. Now they have to do the work. I don't care what they're like, they have to do the work. But for you as a coach, you can draw it out, you can bring it out in them?

Tabatha:

Effective communication, what is again driving them? What are the desires? But then again going to the pain points, and are they more pain driven? Most naturally, we are like we will avoid more pain, but I am actually pleasure driven, like I love to go towards things that cause I'm a positive. So like I'm always like looking at the vision, looking at um more, better, and if I don't have that, like I'm in despair, I'm like, well, I even care, you know, like if I can't make.

Jay:

It comes from you. The pain for you comes from the lack of the success.

Tabatha:

Yeah, Right, and the lack of possibility. Actually, it doesn't even have to be like that. I am going to do that. It's just the fact of like that's possible, like that gets me excited, right? So if you're working with me, you just always show me that vision. I'm game, like I'm on, let's work this, let's do this.

Tabatha:

But a lot of people are like hey, you know, if you don't do this, your wife's going to leave you. You know, if you don't do this, your kids aren't going to have a relationship with you. If you don't do this, your business is going to tank and stocks are going to go under. Whatever like, you have to pull that out. But again, you have to learn you can't talk at them, no matter what personality type it is. If it's a strong personality, you need to be like you know, right there with them.

Tabatha:

But you still have to learn to talk with them, because everybody's being talked at. Like if you look online on Instagram, marketers, everybody, everybody's talking over everybody, everybody's talking at you telling you what you should be, what you should do, what you should eat, what this and that, and it's exhausting. So, as a coach, you need to come in and be like you shouldn't be doing anything, like there's no should on earth, like it's just these are your goals and these are the things that are going to get you to your goals. You get to choose to walk in this. You get to choose how you show up. I'm just here to kind of show you the roadmap and be here for you and remember we're always going back to that like why they started this in the first place.

Jay:

I think it's so interesting too because you really touch on two big points that I think could be drawn into that. Training and coaching space in general is number one matching your audience's energy. When we walk in and maybe we are so excited to be there but the audience is not, there's immediately a disconnect and I'm not saying walk in with no energy, but walk in and maybe acknowledge what kind of energy is in the room. You know, if it's a. I think I was just having a conversation about safety training. I'm like when you walk in, if you're like, yes, safety, no one in the audience is going to relate to you because they don't want to be there more than likely.

Jay:

But then that second piece is and the part that I really liked. What you said is about getting in and then, once you're in that space, talking with them and not at them. Right, an audience, an adult learning audience, is generally going to have ideas. They're going to have ideas, they're going to have thoughts or anything else, and if you come in and just order them what to do, tell me not to do something, and that is a really good way to motivate me to do it. So I'm loving those tactics, just in general.

Jay:

You know, drawing that out, we can put that into any talent development program and really find different sets of results on that. So let me, let me kind of round this out as we're, as we're nearing the end of our time as a coach, as a successful coach, as a successful entrepreneur yourself, what would be, if there's, if there's one thing that you could tell our audience of trainers, coaches, talent development managers, et cetera, what is the one piece of advice that Tabatha would offer to say this is what's going to take you to the next level in your talent and training programs.

Tabatha:

Forgiveness.

Jay:

Interesting.

Tabatha:

Can you?

Jay:

elaborate yeah.

Tabatha:

Yeah, I say this on a lot of podcasts and CEOs and leadership you can say all you want about like, do this, do this, step one, step two. Do you know? There's all those things and they all show merit. But one thing people don't talk about is forgiveness. And this is why it will take you up a level, no matter where you're at is because most of us, especially high level entrepreneur coaches, we are so results driven and go and do and our standards are so high that most of the times we ourselves do not meet them and the people around us do not meet them. And, whether we show it or not, when we hold that against people, they can feel that energy.

Tabatha:

But when you learn to forgive yourself for the shortcomings for maybe not showing up, maybe not drinking the water, doing the sleep, doing the exercise, doing the follow-ups when I can forgive, tab every single day at the end of the day and saying you know what.

Tabatha:

You didn't do that thing and you wanted to. So I assess it, I look at it like, okay, how can I change that? But I'm forgiving myself fully right now. I did the best that I could in that mindset and whatever, even if I attributed to it, even if I ate a cheeseburger and fries and my brain was so bogged down because it was digesting that and I knew I shouldn't have done that. Like right, we know we shouldn't do things and we do them anyway and if we don't learn to forgive ourselves, we hold onto that energy into the next day and then we fall even more short, and then we fall even more short and by the end of the week we are like this big and we're so frustrated, we're so angry. It doesn't matter if our business does $7 million, we're just so.

Jay:

The motivation's not going to be there. Yeah, like we're internal.

Tabatha:

Exactly. But when you can forgive yourself every day and and truly like release it, I don't care if this is forgiveness. Like you're an alcoholic and you said you weren't going to drink and you did, and every day you said I'm going to forgive myself for my shortcomings, I'm going to move on. When you learn and practice that because it's a practice of truly letting go Then, when other people do stuff around you, it's easier to forgive them as well, because people in business are going to disappoint you. Vas are going to drop the ball. Clients aren't going to show up and do what you told them to do. Kids are going to do whatever they're going to want to do. Your husband, your spouse, they're going to do whatever. And if you learn every day, you can get mad. It's okay to get mad. I'm not saying don't get mad, you're not getting. I'm not like oh, it's okay, honey, that you just color it all over the wall, like it is not. What I'm saying is it's not okay that you colored against the wall, so let's get you some paper, let's do some things. What I'm saying is I forgive you and I love you and we're moving on from this. If I can do that, if I can forgive Mark Zuckerberg for taking all my money on Facebook ads like every day I can forgive, and literally. Or the president of our country, like whatever.

Tabatha:

If I can truly say you know what I forgive, I'm moving on. What can I do tomorrow to make it better? If, do I need to be an effective leader? Was my communication? Because I always take ownership. When anybody on my team drops the ball, I'm like it's on me. What ownership? What did I not do to communicate that? And then I forgive myself for not doing that right. So it's a full circle. That's how you get ahead in life. That's how you become. If you want to be a top leader in your company, learn this skill and this practice every single day, and not only will your business life flourish, but your personal life will flourish.

Jay:

Such great advice, Tabatha. So where would our audience be able to find you? Are you on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook? Where would they locate you?

Tabatha:

I'm on all the things, but most of the I'm on YouTube. I have a podcast on there and different content, especially with our Keep Legacy Wealth Project, which is we just help families produce wealth and then keep it through success and wealth principles for your kids. So that's on YouTube. Facebook, Tabatha Thorell, instagram, Tab Thorell, and then we have our website, keep Legacy Wealth, if you're interested in any of that. And then Tab Thorell is my home base. That's where all my freebies from all my fitness to personal development to have real estate any freebies are all housed on that website.

Jay:

We'll make sure we get those links in the show notes and, Tabatha, thank you so much for your time and energy today. It's been a wonderful conversation and thank you for joining us in this episode of the Talent Forge podcast, where we're shaping the future of talent development Bye-bye.

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Jay Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements

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