The Talent Forge: Shaping the Future of Training and Development with Jay Johnson

Embracing Neurodiversity: Transforming Talent Development with Rebecca Prejean

• Jay Johnson

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Discover how embracing neurodiversity can transform talent development as we sit down with Rebecca Prejean, an expert in the field who brings a wealth of personal and professional experience to the table. From her unexpected journey transitioning from graphic design to a key role in training at a fast-growing startup, Rebecca's story is as intriguing as it is inspiring. We delve into the nuances of neurodiversity and neurodivergency, covering conditions like autism, ADHD, and dyslexia, with Rebecca offering profound insights on how these differences play out in professional settings.

Creating an inclusive organizational culture requires more than just one-off accommodations; it must be woven into the very fabric of a company's ethos. Rebecca sheds light on the importance of normalizing conversations around neurodiversity, educating leadership, and reducing the fear of stigmatization. We also share practical strategies for making training tools more inclusive, ensuring that everyone—from leadership to entry-level employees—feels seen and understood. Personal stories, including the host's experience with a neurodivergent brother, punctuate the conversation, providing real-world context to the necessity of supportive resources and adaptive strategies.

For those looking to make their presentations more accessible and inclusive, this episode is a treasure trove of practical advice. From using concise bullet points and appropriate font sizes to providing alternative formats like PDFs, Rebecca walks us through essential design choices that can make a world of difference. We also touch on the broader impact of building a supportive professional community, with Rebecca sharing her exciting plans to launch templates and resources aimed at fostering inclusivity. Join us for an episode rich with actionable insights and heartfelt stories, all geared towards creating a more inclusive and supportive work environment for all.

Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com

Jay Johnson:

Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge, where we are shaping the future of talent development. I'm joined today by special guest Rebecca Prejean. Rebecca, welcome to the show.

Rebecca Prejean:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Jay Johnson:

And I actually I'm going to correct myself, Prejean I knew it and I said it, and as soon as I said it. So just the audience. Fyi, when you make a mistake, correct it, move on. I apologize, Rebecca, but why don't you tell the audience how did you get into this talent development space? Let us know a little bit about your background.

Rebecca Prejean:

Absolutely. In terms of how I got into the talent development space, I'd like to almost say I fell into it. I was doing graphic design at some point and I actually got hired to train at a small startup, even though that's not really what my original intention was. They had hired me just for some phone work at the time but our boss quit and they needed somebody to train. The guy had worked with me at a previous place and asked if I wanted to train people and I'm like, yeah, absolutely, that's fine, you know kind of thing, and I loved it, loved it, that's awesome completely found my niche and stayed there for right around five years or so. But we scaled during that time from like a five, six person in office team to a 200 person international, both in-house and remote team and I trained every single agent that we had for probably that entire five years.

Jay Johnson:

How cool. It's funny. I actually fell into talent development myself. I was communications director at a university. I was asked to put together a program. I did it. It was really successful there and somebody tapped me on the back and said, hey, you're good at this, you should do this for a living. I was like, maybe I will. That sounds great. Expertise areas and focus areas is neurodiversity and inclusion in a training space, and for our audiences that may be somewhat new. Can you help us understand what is that and what does that? How does that show up in the talent development space?

Rebecca Prejean:

Well, in the talent development space it shows up in a variety of ways. So just to kind of give everybody an idea, you know we talk a lot about neurodiversity and then you might hear neurodivergency and you're like I don't understand. What's the difference? Right, we're all different from each other anyway. So neurodiversity is that concept. It's that concept that we're all different. We all have different thoughts, different backgrounds, that kind of you know fire our thoughts and all of the things. So that's one concept.

Rebecca Prejean:

When we get over to specific conditions such as autism, adhd, dyslexia, scrofia, tourette syndrome, bipolar disorder, those are things that are fit into that neurodivergency. So almost like the more clinical thing, where you actually have people like folks with dyslexia that see their letters backwards. That's not a made up thing, they see it that way. So they do something a little different than just thinking differently. They have an added layer to their difference, so to speak. So I always like to kind of make sure we differentiate those things Now in terms of talent development and how that shows up.

Rebecca Prejean:

That can present differently for a lot of folks. People who are on the spectrum, they may go into an interview, for example, for HR folks. They might go into an interview. They might not stare you in the eye, they might kind of look around. They might seem a little, just a little different. They might be on the spectrum if they seem like they can't stop moving a lot. They could have ADHD If they might have difficulty maybe reading something or writing, because that is also something that can show up in dysgraphia, which is another neurodivergent condition. So there are a lot of different ways it can present, which can make it more difficult, of course, for us in talent development to really speak to those things. But there are always best practices, you know, that we can use and that we can implement in our policies and procedures to kind of support those people when they need it.

Jay Johnson:

Well, and we're definitely going to dig into some of those tips and tactics I want to share with you. Actually it's interesting. My brother, who is 12 years, my senior I won't necessarily age ourselves here, but let's say he went to school a long, long time ago and he's actually diagnosed dyslexic. And it was interesting because during his time in school, especially grade school, there weren't particularly very many resources. He was told well, you should go into shop, you need to focus on this. They held him back and he had a twin. They held him back a grade and they said he was dumb.

Jay Johnson:

Now here's the interesting thing my brother, who then later figured this out and ultimately ended up getting his degree from the Eastern Michigan University, getting his master's degree from Michigan State University, getting his teaching certificate from Michigan State University, put himself through there while working full time and experiencing life, and now he is a special education teacher and he has been for the last 20 years because he saw it as, hey, there was nobody offering resources that fit me at that time. So if we're thinking about this and I don't want to say this is a new concept, but from a training, from a talent development space neurodivergence and neurodiversity are, I'm going to call them underutilized, undervalued, underappreciated, and essentially they don't have that many resources. So help me understand. What would I do to make my trainings more inclusive to a neurodivergent population, or how might I think about those things, because, as you mentioned, there's a lot of different things that make us different. How could I think about my trainings or my talent development offerings, or even my coachings, to be more inclusive?

Rebecca Prejean:

There's a lot of different ways. What I tell people is if you don't know where to start, start somewhere, and usually just starting small is a good place to go. So something as simple as closed captioning is something that can help folks that are neurodivergent, and it doesn't just help one condition, it helps multiple, and I will share with folks. Part of the reason I got into this particular field is my son is autistic. Now he is not. You know, 18, 19, 20. Right now he's eight, he just turned eight.

Rebecca Prejean:

But I remember, similar to your brother, as we were trying to get him support and services. You know, when he was first diagnosed at the age of four, it was so hard, it was so hard to find resources for him and we saw so many barriers and so many obstacles and I'm like this should not be this way. But I also made that correlation between our experience and what I saw happening in the training rooms and the training sessions that we were doing in adult classrooms and all these people that we were just like you're just not catching on, like you know what's going on with you. It's like, no, they just don't have that support. And some of that was because, I mean, in our spaces nowadays we tend to have these things that we call trainings that are just videos of meetings. They're not really trainings. Somebody speaking to a group of people for 30 minutes an hour, two hours is not training, as we all know.

Rebecca Prejean:

And for somebody who's neurodivergent it presents a myriad of issues. First and foremost, a lot of them aren't closed caption. You might not have a transcript, you don't have keyboard navigation, you can't really rewind back and continuously kind of look and things like that. Then there's other issues like sound quality. They don't get to interact with it at all, they're literally just staring and, depending on what else is happening, they might have cognitive overload or sensory things going on where it's too much sound. You know we also like to record things with music a lot of music, a lot of sound. Those things can be distracting and I will tell people I'm a multimedia fanatic. So if anybody loves a good bit of flair and music and moving graphics and animations, it is me, because I make them.

Jay Johnson:

You got that creative background yeah.

Rebecca Prejean:

Yeah, I'm like, I love them, but there's a time and a place for it and so when we're thinking about these trainings, when we're thinking about our onboarding it's a really important part and piece we have to start thinking more purposefully as opposed to just getting something out there. We do have to start doing some more evaluations at the end of our stuff. We have to do assessments that actually can be measured over time so you can come back a month, three months, however long, and actually see is there progress here? And actually use that, if there's accessibility in it. Use that to kind of foster some more programs and some more initiatives to continue to build that and build that business case that it's so hard sometimes to build.

Jay Johnson:

And so that is just absolutely insightful and thank you for sharing your personal story on that as well. You know, a lot of times we find, like my study of we should be able to get more resources. I have friends who have gone through that. Their son is about eight years old right now too, and it's the same experience and I know it's not the same experience, but I know it's a shared experience that finding different resources can be a challenge. So one of the things that I wanted to kind of hone in on, like, for example, I just did a keynote talk for the Association for Assistive Technologies. They provide a lot of different technological solutions for people with disabilities and it was interesting because right before that training, the executive director sent me hey, here's some things for you to keep in mind and here's some things for you to think about, and it was really interesting.

Jay Johnson:

I've studied the science of bias and I use that from the diversity standpoint, so a lot of the things I was already aware of.

Jay Johnson:

But it was one of those where I was like, wow, why am I not asking some of these questions in my own questionnaire before I go into a training space? Why am I not learning? Is there people with mobility disabilities? Are there people with cognitive disabilities? Are there people with any kind of neurodivergence that I should be thinking about? And I know that sometimes it may not be out there, it may not be communicated or anything, but I do wanna accommodate. But I think sometimes trainers and coaches might be afraid to ask or afraid to approach the subject, help us understand and help the audience. How might we be able to be inclusive in a respectful and kind and considerate way, because we obviously don't want to ask somebody what's your personal neurodivergence, what's your? We don't want to go down that road, but how can we really make sure that we're showing up the way that we need to show up for the people that are sitting in our room and that we're serving as trainers or coaches and HR people?

Rebecca Prejean:

It's about being proactive and reaching out beforehand. When we talk about being in the HR space especially in like corporations, things like that we have an uncanny access moment. We can talk to these people when they first get hired, so you don't have to ask so what's your specific one? You can actually have a broad, general email, which most of us do. Right, we have the form templates where you can say if there's an accommodation that you may need, please know that we're here to support you. Feel free to reach out to this specific person. So you should have an accessibility or accommodation liaison like that is a process that you should have in place for people to for people to know who to reach out to.

Rebecca Prejean:

I was doing some research and some different things and I actually came across a statistic from Harvard. They did some research and some surveys and I believe it was like 49 percent%. So almost 50% of people don't know who to even go to in their organization for accommodations. So that's something that we should be putting in those initial contacts when we're getting them excited to join our companies. Right, we want them to feel wanted. This is their intro. To make the intro as good as it can be and to make them feel as welcomed as you want them to feel, you need to have that door open. It's not asking them individually, but it's saying hey, we care enough about our people to have this set up. This is our liaison. This is the person you can go to and ask any questions about accommodations. This is the person you can go to and ask any questions about accommodations. If there's a concern about accessibility, you know you ask this person. There should be a process in place when we're talking about our talent development and HR processes.

Jay Johnson:

Absolutely, that's so, that's so smart, right, making sure that that process is systematic, that it's got that open door. Now, if I was to ask and here's something that I know from my brother's personal experience there was a number of times that people would say does anybody need accommodations? And he wouldn't speak up because the stigmatization and I know that 30 years ago, 40 years ago, is very, very different than the world that we're living in now. But there is still stigmatization and especially on some of the different neurodivergent you know neurodivergent capabilities, there are more stigmas than others. You know, when we, when we hear the word spectrum, we I think most people now understand what that means, but generally it's.

Jay Johnson:

I don't know. It seems to me, and I'll share a story personally in a moment. But I guess my question is how can we better reach people that may have that fear of stigmatization or how may we be able to? And obviously, like you said, being proactive, doing these things in advance, but making sure that you know that there is a safe space for somebody to be able to speak up and to understand that, hey, I'm not going to be evaluated. You know, if I'm an audience member and somebody says, does anybody need accommodations.

Jay Johnson:

You look around and like nobody else has, I ain't asking for nothing, right now, right, I don't want to be the one person that's like I could really use, um, you know, some kind of hearing support, or I could move up to the front of the room. Nobody nobody generally, nobody generally will speak up. How can we better create that safe space?

Rebecca Prejean:

It has to become part of your culture. It has to. We have to see it integrated into DEI. We have to see it, and I know DEI is kind of dropping away a little bit in certain spaces, like the state that I currently live in. You know you're not allowed to necessarily have those pieces of the organization, so I get that, but it still needs to be a part of the culture. So, even if you don't have DEI, you can embed that into your leadership development so that people are aware of neurodivergency, they're aware of disabilities, they're aware of disabilities, they're aware of how to talk to people in a way that's respectful, where we're talking about language and some of these things. We're having these webinars, all these things right. We have employee resource groups, we have webinars, we have meetings. We have all of this stuff. We have to start to begin to normalize the conversation. Once you've normalized it, once it becomes part of your culture, people won't feel as afraid to be stigmatized.

Rebecca Prejean:

Because there is stigma, there is bias. I mean, I see it. My son is autistic. Yes, he's not nonverbal. He does have some very specific things. You know that kind of come with that. But we've seen it. I've seen it at work.

Rebecca Prejean:

People will treat folks like they're like they're dumb, like they're not smart, like they're not capable.

Rebecca Prejean:

I mean, I've seen my son just left to his own devices in certain classrooms, like completely ignored, because they don't know how to approach, they don't know how to kind of interact with him because he's not as social.

Rebecca Prejean:

And so other things we have to really do. We have to check our own biases. Are we giving the most attention to the person who's the most vocal in the room, just because they're engaging and they come up to you and say, hey, sister Sally, how are things going, you know, at the water cooler? Are you kind of prioritizing those folks? Are you making sure that even the ones that are a little bit more quiet are seen, are heard or their opinions are being taken in? It starts with culture and it starts with making that a foundational piece. If it's not part of the culture, if we're not talking about it, if it is these one-off moments in the room where we're like hey, who needs an accommodation? And expecting somebody to show up, they're not going to show up because you haven't shown up for them in any other piece of the company, and that's just the bottom line of it.

Jay Johnson:

Yeah, because then at that point in time it just looks like you're oh, I'm appeasing or I'm doing this, and it's not actually engaged, if you're not bringing it into the larger culture. That's really smart, that's really smart advice and you know it's really unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear the challenges at the challenges, but it sounds like it sounds like your son's got a great mother that knows what she's doing and helping navigate some of that space. So I'm glad you're here because I think that I think you know in a lot of cases. You said something that really stuck out to me. It's people don't know and they don't know how to help and they don't know how to provide resources. They don't know how.

Jay Johnson:

And that's a big part of why I'm really excited about this conversation, because I'm hoping that that young trainer out there, or maybe that even that seasoned trainer that doesn't have the experience or the background in this can take some of this knowledge and say hey, you know what? How can we modernize our learning and development programs? How can we modernize our training and our coaching and our culture to have this level of inclusivity? Um, my, my question for you, rebecca, is going to be let's take just a tool. Okay, uh, and I'm not saying no one loves death by powerpoint, but let's be honest in so many trainings there is still an avid use of powerpoint all over the place. Okay, so how might I rethink things like my images, my fonts, what might I consider to be more inclusive to the neurodivergent population in say, something like a tool like PowerPoint?

Rebecca Prejean:

great questions and I love a good powerpoint. I I don't need to.

Rebecca Prejean:

I know me too, but I'm like I love a good powerpoint as long as it's done well. So what I like to tell people problem we have a powerpoint is that we like to cram everything in and we still only like to have it be maybe five to ten slides with all the things. So if you are wanting to make them more accessible, you've got to make things more clear. You do have to have bullet points that are shorter maybe four word phrases so that people who are watching it have time to actually digest it. Additionally, what I like to have people do if they ask me about this, I do like them to provide like a PDF version so somebody has a different option other than looking at the screen simply because of sensory things, cognitive overload, just a myriad of stuff, right, and they have that opportunity to go back.

Rebecca Prejean:

In terms of images, we have this blanket thing where we say simplified images. That doesn't mean that it has to be boring, but you do want to be careful especially if you happen to be a designer or somebody on this particular session listening to this. You do want to be careful of things that have like depth, so things have a lot of shadow, things that have like a bunch of colors. You want to make sure that you strip a lot of that down, because some people that have low vision they might not have as good as depth perception as somebody who doesn't have a neurodivergent condition. So you definitely want to be mindful of those things. You also want to be mindful of color contrast for people who might be colorblind. So a lot of people do these crazy things with color or they think that color doesn't matter. Color absolutely does matter. So try to keep it.

Jay Johnson:

There's a lot of psychology in color too.

Rebecca Prejean:

Absolutely yes there is, so please keep it. I usually try to keep it to maybe a handful of colors. If that, maybe three, or there's a lot that you can do with maybe three colors. I promise you it doesn't have to be a cacophony of of color blast.

Jay Johnson:

You hear that audience, this is coming from a graphics person. Don't over, yeah, don't, don't. Uh, don't take this and, and you know, go back out and have a 700 colors in your PowerPoint. Not necessary.

Rebecca Prejean:

It really does not have to be necessary. If you have video or sound, make sure that there are options to turn those things off or at least pause them. Um again, I love, I love music in the background of videos. I I just that's just a thing I love. But I do make sure, if I'm creating like an e-learning in particular, that there's a trigger. Somebody can just kind of turn that off because it can be distracting.

Rebecca Prejean:

And you also yep and you also ask for fonts. So fonts, the general rule is no less than 12 point font. That's why you can't cram all those words onto that slide. So it does need to be at least 12 point or higher. And make sure you keep simple fonts. So Calibri is a nice one, arial is a nice, simple font. So not cursive. Things that look really fancy and, I won't lie, often look very, very pretty when you're doing certain things. It can still look just as good with simple fonts. Some of it I tell people a lot some of this is artistic principles, artistic thoughts. So I encourage a lot of designers, especially instructional designers, go do a foundational arts class and just learn some basic principles of art like balance, color, composition, and that really does help a lot. I know it sounds kind of weird to some folks, but I've been drawing since I was five. I promise you that it helps a ton.

Jay Johnson:

So you can laugh at me the way that the graphic designers in my company do. I used to design everything in PowerPoint and then I would turn it over to somebody that actually had graphic design talent and they would fix it for me. But yeah, so I am definitely a fan of the PowerPoint that they recommended and I thought this was a complete gap. I mean, this was just a I miss, I didn't think about it. They said when you have an image on there, especially when you're working with a population that may have a visual disability, that you need to describe the images.

Jay Johnson:

And when I started to go back so I've been going back through all of my different PowerPoints and looking at the images that I had and say could I describe this image in five words or less? So it's really funny that you said keep it short. I never put a lot of text on mine. It's usually like one statement and then I speak to that statement, but that's like here's the lesson. Now we can talk a little bit about that, so on and so forth, but I never really thought about having to describe my images and my coaching program.

Jay Johnson:

Yeah, sure, it makes logical sense now and I'm just like this is a gap, this is an unconscious bias. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I will be better and I actually took that into my coaching program, where I'm coaching trainers and coaches like, okay, here's an inclusivity piece you can add into your things. Think about all texts, think about this, Think about how you would describe that. So I love the tips that you're providing there, rebecca. You know we're nearing the end of our time, but this has been such a productive and fruitful conversation. I want to open up space for you. What would you want to tell the trainers, coaches, hr, people listening, what would be your? You know, call it your premier advice or what is it that? Like, hey, if you do nothing else, do these things and that is going to help you take those first steps. Or even, like, elevate or accelerate your inclusion and inclusivity in your trainings.

Rebecca Prejean:

If there were a few things that I could say if you were going to do nothing else that I've said today. But you want to do one thing you really do have to start having conversations. You have to start having conversations, even if it's not with bigwigs. So maybe you're not the CEO, maybe you're not the CMO, maybe you're not the head of HR, maybe you are just over learning and development, maybe you're a manager or something like that. We have to start having the conversations, even if it's within our own teams, as to how we can do itty bitty things.

Rebecca Prejean:

Accessibility doesn't have to be this huge production Right now. I think a lot of people are scared of it because if you go and you look at WCAG standards, there's a lot that's there and if it's your first time looking at it honestly, you're probably going to be like this is overwhelming and I'm going to click out and I'll think about it, but you might never go back again. So it's about thinking about the small things that you can implement without having to have extra money, without having to have extra backing and, like I said, evaluating what you've got. So, as Jay mentioned, alt text, something anybody can do. You can do it on a PowerPoint. You can do it in your training, you can do it pretty much everywhere and it costs nothing. It costs all of half a minute to come up with a five-word description, so it's absolutely simple to do. Closed captioning doesn't have to cost you a lot, if anything. There's AI now that will absolutely do it for you and it provides a wealth of information, a wealth of opportunity and a wealth of support. Creating a PDF version of something just to I mean, we talk about those things all the time. Those are like job aids, one-sheeters, very simple things.

Rebecca Prejean:

Accessibility does not have to be. I'm going to start off with a three, six, 12-month plan. It can be something that is small, so that you at least start to build those things into your culture and they become more normalized, and then you can build on to bigger things. So what I like to tell people is don't be scared of it. It can be intimidating and it can be scary for a lot of reasons and, if I'm being honest, for a lot of companies. It's scary because we are in an age where people are much more aware of it, they are much more vocal about it and it's sometimes, if you don't get it right, they're going to talk about it and they're going to talk about it in a larger forum and it can be scary, but we all make mistakes.

Rebecca Prejean:

I make mistakes and I mean I live with somebody who's neurodivergent and I'm responsible for taking care of him and keeping him alive with somebody who's neurodivergent and I'm responsible for taking care of him and keeping him alive. So we all make mistakes and it's okay to make a mistake. When you make a mistake, if it's a public one, it's like, hey, my bad, my mistake, I didn't realize this. I realize this. Now, going forward, we'll address it.

Rebecca Prejean:

There's a hundred different ways to do it. What you don't want to do is pull completely all the way back and pull the rug from under people who, honestly, are an untapped resource. We are spending money trying to find new people. We're spending money trying to find innovation and increase revenue and improve product, when the people who can do that for us are sitting in the room. They're just waiting for the support so that they can show you the answers to all of these questions. So it really is about normalizing that conversation, doing small things and realizing that these are your people. You don't usually have to go that far away to find your solution. Your people are in the building.

Jay Johnson:

So much wisdom in that. So much wisdom in that. I love that, rebecca, let me tell you a couple of things. Is first of all, the comment that you made about you know people are worried about engaging because you know people are aware of it and they go. Let me tell you, if you're not engaging, that doesn't stop people from talking about you, if you're making those mistakes. So it's better to engage. It's better to be accountable to yourself and to your behaviors and to learn some humble pie Sometimes. You know what? No one in the world has all of the answers or all of the right answers. We all make mistakes and if we do it with humility and curiosity, it can be a growth and learning experience. So I love that. I love the start small.

Jay Johnson:

As a behavioral scientist, this is one of the biggest things that, like, if you want to walk the mountain, don't look at the mountaintop. Take the first step, you know, buy the equipment, do that and then start all the other things. If you start small, if it's easy, you'll do it. If it's not easy, you'll get. So such such great wisdom there, rebecca, how would our audience get in touch with you if they want to learn more, if they want to experience more. On the, on the questions of how can I design, how can I think through these different aspects of neurodiversity and just inclusion in general.

Rebecca Prejean:

Absolutely. So a few ways somebody can reach me. Primarily, linkedin is a great way. Um. I usually post almost every day um, whether it's tips, strategies, whatever the case may be. I post pretty regularly Um, but in addition to that, I'm always available via email as well. Rebecca Prajan at ebgcnet my website's, wwwebgcnet and um.

Rebecca Prejean:

Next week I'm actually launching a community. It is not a slack community I promise no slack but it is about accessibility, um, and I've named it the accessibility think tank. So it is for professionals. If you want to learn about accessibility, if you want to figure out how to design things, if you want to figure out out things for your HR, I'm going to have a whole forum about it. We can literally talk about it. You can schedule time with me in the community. So I'm trying to build the community that we really should have as professionals to support one another, because it's really not. There's almost no way we can win this particular battle without supporting one another. So I have templates, resources, all the things, and I plan on launching that next week. So if somebody were to be interested, they're more than welcome to reach out to me.

Jay Johnson:

That is incredible, and I will be reaching out to you, rebecca, so that is something that we can all improve on. Thank you so much for your time and for the incredible conversation. Really appreciate that. Yeah, this has been awesome.

Rebecca Prejean:

Thank you, yes absolutely so thankful for you having me Absolutely.

Jay Johnson:

And thank you, audience, for tuning into this episode of the Talent Forge, where we are shaping the future of talent development.

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Jay Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements

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