The Talent Forge: Shaping the Future of Training and Development with Jay Johnson

From Traditional HR to Strategic Partnership with Andrew Almazan

• Jay Johnson • Season 1 • Episode 31

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What if HR could transcend its traditional role and become a true powerhouse of organizational success? Join us on this episode of the Talent Forge as we welcome Andrew Almazan, an ex-VP of people with 15 years of industry experience, who shares his journey from the challenges of COVID-19 to creating the Brave Leadership Guild. Andrew takes us through the nuanced roles of VP of people and HR, shedding light on strategies for overcoming the stigma of HR as merely an enforcement arm. With insights into the balance between risk mitigation and the human aspect of HR, Andrew advocates for a more proactive approach to the internal marketing of HR's value.

Learn more about Andrew's organization, Brave Leadership Guild: http://www.braveleadershipguild.com/

Andrew's FREE "The Executive's Playbook for Better Business Execution:" https://braveleadershipguild.com/merch-blg/executives-playbook-for-better-business-execution

Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com

Jay Johnson:

Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge, where we are shaping the future of training and development together, and today I've got a special guest, andrew Almazan. Welcome to the show, andrew. Hey, jay, thanks for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation. You've got an incredible background, being an ex-VP of people and in your current role, alongside of coaching some leaders. But let's get to know you a little bit better. Can you tell us and the audience a little bit about yourself and how you got into this space?

Andrew Almazan:

Absolutely. And just first I wanted to say thank you, appreciate you and your audience for taking the time to spend some time with me. I've essentially got 15 years of experience to date in American business. Like you talked about, I was an ex-VP of people for a top five media company in the automotive space and I really cut my teeth as a professional in that company working my way up to eventually become that VP.

Andrew Almazan:

Long story short.

Andrew Almazan:

On that side of things know the, the economics, the economic scenario you know around covid finally caught up to the industry and we had to face some, some challenges.

Andrew Almazan:

Maybe we can get into some of those things, uh, later in the convo. But um, ultimately I was faced with this decision to pivot um and and adapt to kind of the environment. That inspired the two things the development of my executive coaching practice, brave Leadership Guild but at the same time it was also a opportunity to reintegrate back into the craft brewing and hospitality space, which is where I was as a younger professional way before kind of getting into the corporate world. So it's kind of this full circle thing At the same time. Just, it's just been this sort of strategic dance in terms of adapting with the times at the same time not utilizing that as an excuse to not thrive, right? So that's where I'm at today, acting as the assistant general manager for one of Southern California's oldest craft breweries and, at the same time, dedicating a little bit of energy to helping other professionals meet and achieve their professional goals.

Jay Johnson:

Love that, anders, and I love the full circle nature of it. You know, I definitely want to get into some of your approach when it comes to coaching, and I love the name Brave Leadership Guild. Before we go there, though, I want to dig into this, this role as vice president of people, and I think this is important because a lot of our audience, you know, in the talent development space, they may be reporting to either their HR function or their CHRO or, if there is a position of that, the vice president of people. So let's get into the mindset. What were you thinking and what was sort of like your major concerns when you were in that role of VP of people?

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, absolutely, as that vice president of people. I took a lot of pride in that role. I think it combines the very best of what you might expect or what you might think about when you think of traditional leadership in the human resources space, you know, um, an acute attention to detail, with policies, regulations across the country, uh, and even internationally if you're working for an an international level organization, uh. But at the same time, I really was a big advocate for creating a space where the VP of people role could thrive at that media company, side by side to a VP of human resources who we had at that time as that added layer of organizational design and people strategy. I think that that's that additional layer You're thinking in terms of looking at the entire organization in all its moving functions and ensuring that all the pieces are in alignment and kind of working towards that overall organizational mission and the values that it has.

Jay Johnson:

You know I like that division because I think in a lot of cases and I find it interesting the more conversations I have with HR and HR representatives they feel like they're kind of put in this double bind of having to serve the master, the organization, but also having to serve the people. So how did that relationship go when you have sort of a designated people strategist working in conjunction with HR? Did people respond more positively to the HR function? Did they respond more positively to the people? Was there divisions? How did that look in that organization?

Andrew Almazan:

visions. How did that look in that organization? Yeah, you know, I think the first step was really getting people to understand the value of both functions. You know, just candidly speaking, I feel like and in my experience in the HR realm for a time, I feel like the human resources space and professionals on that team tend to get a bad rap.

Andrew Almazan:

I think that there's a stigma that people within an organization tend to feel about human resources. They tend to feel like they are the internal police, that that's the primary function. At the worst case they're serving, maybe, the interests and the functions of the senior leadership team, the executive team and risk mitigation right, and at the worst, maybe not really having a pulse on the needs, the concerns or the initiatives that do matter most to the people. But I think that that perspective lives in internal organizational culture when you don't do a good enough job internally marketing the value of the function of human resources. And I also think that as a human resources professional, we have the opportunity every day to either break past and overcome that stigma or reinforce it. So I tend to be yeah, I was going to say I think that's smart. I'm sorry, go ahead, jay.

Jay Johnson:

No, that's totally smart and I really think about what you just said of each day. Our behavior is going to determine whether we're perceived as the executioner or the actual. You know the role and the function of. Yeah, of course we've got to mitigate risk, or of course we've got to be able to enforce some of the policies, but at the same time, it still is about the human aspect of human resources. So I love that you brought that up human aspect of human resources. So I love that you brought that up. I think that you're absolutely right.

Jay Johnson:

That bad rap comes in many cases because HR has been used as the execution or function and not necessarily deployed at the highest level. But we, as you know, in that talent space, in that human space, can re sort of reestablish what our brand is as an HR function. How might we? With your background in media, I have to ask the question how do we go about marketing that? How do we go about creating the conditions to sort of reinvent ourselves? Because I think that's a really important question both for HR and for talent development.

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, I love to start. That's a great question, jay. I appreciate that. I like to start with thinking about what are the perceptions that we need to tackle, that we need to face, what are the tough truths about what our people are saying about us at the water cooler? And I think that if we, as professionals at the highest rungs of self development, with a mind for and an eye for improvement, constant growth, if we can be open to that feedback and not be defensive to it and say, okay, perfect, here's the opportunity We've been provided with the blueprint.

Andrew Almazan:

Someone said it Someone smarter than me said it that accusations are just confessions of people's interests. And I've definitely built a philosophy of conflict resolution around that singular statement. I think it was an old professor from on the I didn't take law, but she was in a professor from the law side of Pepperdine University and I think she was just having a conversation and that really stuck with me. But I'll say it one more time that some someone's accusations are just confessions of their interests. So, plainly speaking, if someone says to their boss you know you tend to just kind of mow me over in meetings and kind of shoot down my ideas, we can, as leaders get defensive about that. Or we can say you know what Jane Doe or John Doe right there just gave me an opportunity to understand what their biggest and deepest interest to work more effectively, more effectively with me is. And that's an opportunity to be understood, to maybe recognize the value of the ideas that they bring to the table. And so, just, I'm a big jujitsu practitioner, so the idea of flipping energy is huge to me and you know we can look at these negatives in positive light.

Andrew Almazan:

So long answers, short. Shorter answer to your question is taking stock of what people are saying at the water cooler and then dissecting that. What is that, what? How can we meet people with those criticisms and create a dialogue that helps show them that one we understand? We think we understand what you're getting at there. Let's check for alignment and then, if we are aligned, let's come up with a plan to earn your trust, to establish some confidence in what we do.

Jay Johnson:

Some absolute gold in that statement, andrew, and I love the flipping analogy. I also practiced jujitsu a long, long time ago. I haven't done it so much recently.

Jay Johnson:

But you know, and even the philosophy of jujitsu is you don't have to be the biggest to have a lot of power and control if you can actually control yourself. And I think you know something that you said that that really resonated with me on. That is the part about taking a step back when you experience that criticism or you hear that feedback. Um, you know, it's something that, uh, jocko Willink talks a lot about. Time is detaching from it, taking a step back and saying, okay, well, why is this perception exist? Or what is it about this statement that could be true, or should I really evaluate about myself? But it's that defensive nature that often gets in the way.

Jay Johnson:

So now you coach executives. How do you get them to back away from that sort of defensive nature? Because this could be true, whether you know, somebody says, hey, I really didn't like your training that you just gave, or hey, I didn't appreciate the learning opportunity that you had there. We could take that personally because we divest our identity into it. Or we could actually take a step back, get away from that sort of taking it personally and say, okay, well, how can I use this to create it? So, in coaching executives or anybody else. What's a good strategy for us? Being able to take that momentary pause and say what can I learn from this or how can I create an opportunity from this?

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, that's great and I think you hit the nail on the head there, jay, because that really is the first step to any meaningful work being done. I think at the executive level, even at the beginning stages, if you can do that as an entry level professional, the sky is definitely the limit, because oftentimes, like you just said, I think it's not external obstacles that get in the way of projects being completed or visions for initiatives that never got off the ground. It wasn't these external issues. I think it was someone getting in the way of themselves and another jujitsu turn.

Andrew Almazan:

Just tapping out a little too early, tapping strategically is definitely smart for longevity, but in the case of what we're talking about, I think if we can detach from that emotional response that we get when maybe your boss rejects your idea or maybe they're not as emotionally intelligent in their response, what I like to tell executives is you're not in control of how that individual critiqued.

Andrew Almazan:

Maybe if they, you know, we could sit here and wish that you had a supervisor that had a higher level of EQ in that moment.

Andrew Almazan:

But we're not here to talk about what we wish was different.

Andrew Almazan:

Let's focus on what's within your control to still push forward an outcome that you wish to seek and really, once we can kind of get the ego calmed down because I do think the ego is important still there's an important part that it plays in terms of passionately pursuing and having that sheer self-belief, especially when you're pushing something that it only feels like you're the only one who believes it. You have to have a healthy level of ego to get that thing to the finish line, but you have to quiet it enough to not be so uber sensitive to all the external factors that are vying for your response. So if we can kind of get that an individual to that place, then I think the secret not the secret, but the area of where I focus on really getting meaningful work done with executives is now let's unpack what's within your control, let's focus on those levers and then outside of that, you know what do the people that are relying on you stand to gain if you absolutely crush it and bring this thing to life?

Jay Johnson:

I love that. So it's super fitting with even something that we teach, which is the behavioral intelligence model, which is explain and predict behaviors as two pillars or two components. And then the last two components are influence and control, and part of that is we can influence somebody else's behavior. We can't control them and then we can control our own behavior, which can then lead to influencing others. So being able to understand that difference of, hey, I can't control how they feel, what their perception is, how they communicate, what they talk about, but I can control myself and my reaction to it and what I take from it.

Jay Johnson:

So your comment on the ego, I think, is super smart, because when I am a big proponent of ego, I just think that people misrepresent or misunderstand what the ego does.

Jay Johnson:

I think when they think ego, they think of all the egotistical baggage that comes along with it.

Jay Johnson:

But I think somebody that actually has a really strong and healthy ego is the person that's able to say huh, I hadn't considered that about myself.

Jay Johnson:

Let me think about that, because they're comfortable in who they are. Their ego is is solid, as opposed to it being the fragile ego that turns around and says I know you are, but what am I? You know, right, right. So I think having a healthy ego is really actually having the sturdy foundation to be able to turn your perception inwards and say, yeah, okay, I can see a little bit of that, here's how I might be able to adapt, or here's how I might be able to shift or change or or take a different mindset. And I want to get into that because I'd love to learn a little bit more about your philosophy and approach when it comes to these executives that you're coaching, and what we might be able to infer from that is from the coaches or trainers that are listening, thinking about you know, how does, how does my philosophy play versus you know different potential perspective philosophy, so go ahead if you would share a little bit about that for us.

Andrew Almazan:

Absolutely, jay. So for me, I'm a big. I'm a big proponent of balance, especially in the business world. And when I'm, the balance that I'm referring to is both your creativity and innovative side of your thinking. But then also, if we're talking about business, you know numbers matter, tangible outcomes matter, and you know you can be as creative and innovative as of a professional.

Andrew Almazan:

But if you have a challenge, if either that means it's just something that you are averse to quantifying things, if you are just averse to being able to pour into the metrics and look for patterns, you're going to have a very tough time advocating either for yourself, for your team, whether that comes down to things like more resources, more fiscal support, so being able to be a creative, but then also understand that the language of business really does come down to the tangible metrics that kind of move our economy. I like to coach executives and emerging leaders in in the discipline of understanding that you can't have, you can't succeed without being uh, at the very least having a healthy respect for both Um so project management, uh, you know, have, have beautiful and disruptive ideas, but be disciplined in terms of being able to communicate to yourself, to your team and your supervisors above you how you're going to produce tangible outcomes for the business for your department. So that might be a kind of like a way that I do that.

Jay Johnson:

I love that and you said one of my favorite words in the world balance, which we talk about a lot actually on this podcast.

Jay Johnson:

You know balancing out those drives the drive to acquire versus the drive to bond with people, the drive to innovate and learn or the drive to defend, and you know, tamp down on risk. So I love that you bring that up. Now, one of the things that I've experienced, both in my professional life but also in working with some different executives, is oftentimes they're coming into a space with very little balance and usually that's part of the reason why they're getting an executive coach or part of the reason why you know they're engaging. What is it that you know? When we are coaching executives, how do we help them see that imbalance that they're having? How do you coach them through that to become aware of it or to surface some of those internals? Because we can say, hey, andrew, you're imbalanced right now and what's going to happen, more than likely, is the defense mechanisms, the rejection, the walls that are coming up. So it is a process of getting others to kind of surface it for themselves. How do you do that? How do you go about that?

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, and I think you know I'm not speaking for all coaches and trainers and HR professionals who do this full time for their teams within their company but my style I love a good conversation and I do appreciate the value of what it means to be empathetic and I think that's really the first step is to, I think, in through genuine dialogue that resonates with whoever that individual is that you're sitting across the room from. You have to be able to increase their empathy meter for the thing that we're talking about, for the conflict or the opportunity of development that we're talking about. And if you can raise that, I call it that empathy meter for them. Apply that behavior that we're talking about. Maybe we'll use the example from previous moments ago Maybe they're an executive that tends to mow over other people's ideas.

Andrew Almazan:

They squash the ideas. We need to discover why that is right, without raising their defenses. Through that conversation and I think, reinforcing that what we are doing is we're excavating and we know we might go into places where it feels like you're being attacked and just letting that individual know. No, this might be a little scary, this might be a little frustrating through these moments where I'm probing here, but understand what we stand to gain what your team stands to gain, if we can look at what's happening what people are saying about you is happening and reverse engineer a plan, maybe a different approach to your day-to-day that allows you to get better outcomes from your people.

Jay Johnson:

I love that. So it is, yes, the empathy meter. I like that concept and let's play with this concept here for a second too, because I think about this and I go all right, you've got an executive and this is. The question is going to be more broad in general, but, like, let's take it from this perspective of the executive, they have gotten to a high level position.

Jay Johnson:

They've obviously the behaviors that they have exhibited over the course of their career have on some level served them well. So, whether that was the not listening or rejecting or whatever, they've made it to this executive level, which then you know, when we're rewarded for our behaviors, well, we reinforce those behaviors and do those behaviors again. So my question and the general question is is because I know the trainers and the coaches in the audience have experienced this this what happens when you get that executive that's resistant to change and that just doesn't want to push forward with something or doesn't see the value of it, Like, well, I am who I am and it's gotten me this far. You know that sort of mentality that's like the antithesis to growth and development. What do you do to sort of encourage, empower or influence that sort of shift in thinking?

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, I have a very simple prompt that I've honed through a few conversations with that and it's as simple as asking them in the same stroke when we ask what do your people, what is your company, what does this organization stand to gain If you absolutely succeed in this thing that we're working on, getting them to really focus and and get that out on paper in the same conversation, asking them what does this organization, what is your team, what do you as a professional stand to lose if you don't, if you fail?

Jay Johnson:

I love that the inverse pro and con list, with the pros of doing it and what are the cons that are going to exist if you don't do it. I really love that approach so brilliant. Let's talk a little bit about what success looks like. How do you measure success? How do you you know you finish, you finish a coaching program, or even even when you were working within your teams, what was it that you define success? You know, part of the reason we started this podcast was because we know that, from like data out there in the industry, nine out of 10 trainings fail to lead to any kind of organizational impact or results. We know that less than 23% of the people that attend a training or go through some kind of coaching program actually shift to behavior. So, from your perspective, what does success look like? An organization invests in a coach, or even the leader invests in a coach. How do you define what that ROI or what that success is for them?

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, that's a great question and that really comes down to the crux of it all. Right, in terms of what we do as professional coaches, trainers and executives for companies. Coaches, trainers and executives for companies we, we and I said this just last week we live and die professionally by how well we articulate and execute on the ROI that we create for our people. And so, to answer your question, jay, I think I like to live life a little bit on the edge with my coaching. There's no template KPI for clients.

Andrew Almazan:

Through a discovery call, we mutually develop or extract what the deepest, most high-impact goal looks and feels like for that executive or for that executive's team. If it's a team coaching, we list it out, we boil it down to like three things, um, and we check for alignment on that. And so the KPIs, client by client, are always different. Some might be a little more qualitative. Uh, you know it might be. Hey, at the end of our engagement, I'd love for you to facilitate a 360 peer review for where we have a sample size of subordinate level, peer level and supervisory level people. I want to be able to crush at least an 80% score eight out of 10 across the board, perfect.

Andrew Almazan:

For someone else it might be. Hey, I'm a sales rep, a national sales rep. I just have trouble staying organized. A KPI for them that we've worked on in the past is hey, I'd like to see an increase net, you know, like two 3% in sales over 90 days of us working together specifically through you helping me dial in my organizational approach. So I chance it client to client, because everybody's different and every professional's opportunities are different, right? So I would think I would be doing someone a disservice and I would actually encourage other trainers and other leaders who are listening to this to take that chance to and treat everybody as an individual. You might have, like your template offerings, but really the most valuable thing we can do as coaches is serve as that coach, right, that sees things from a different vantage point and sees everyone for their unique selves with their unique opportunities. And it might be a little more work, uh, to to step outside of that and tailor, tailor something, uh, some success metrics to that professional, but that's how you create a, you know, long-term value.

Jay Johnson:

Couldn't agree more, and I think it applies not only just to coaching but also to training too, like developing some kind of custom, specific, clear objectives for the training or the offerings that you're going to be giving and making sure that those are aligned with the business objectives and being able to ask the right questions to get to there. So you know, as you mentioned, going through that process of discovery and asking the questions to really get to the KPIs and we talk about KPIs on here, but if you're just joining and you're not familiar, it's key performance indicators, which is one of the measurements that generally we would look at to make sure that, hey, we you know we only had people laughing 10 times a day and we want them laughing 20 times a day. That could be a KPI that you're training for or developing for or coaching for. I used just a simple one there as an example, but I think it's really important when we look at it and say how is this person showing up? Because even if I'm doing a sales training and I have my organizational objectives well, how each of those people are performing.

Jay Johnson:

Some of them may be making a thousand calls and just not getting a close. Some of them may be making a hundred calls and only getting two meetings or whatever else. How they approach that and giving them some space to develop what is it that I need to do to be successful can be a really powerful approach. But you're right, it does take more energy and more effort and more work. So, as we kind of get to that space, do you have any tactics, tips, strategies that you would encourage the audience to consider when it's, you know, putting in that extra amount of effort? And is there anything that you do to really kind of synthesize that or make it more efficient? Or, from your experience, even being as a VP of people, what were some of the things that you would tactically do in order to create the conditions for kind of that individualized learning?

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, absolutely. And if I could, I think the best way for me to share those strategies is to kind of work my way back from some anecdotal evidence. I have it noted here, but it's a recent and real world outcome that we've been able to enjoy here, with me working alongside a general manager for the last 10 to 12 months. So I'll start with the outcomes and then kind of maybe we can talk about how we got there. But as of January, we looked at his KPIs, and his biggest KPIs have to do with the revenue that the building generates for the business. January, year over year, he was able to, alongside his team, see a 13% year over year increase in sales. And this is in a declining market, a declining and saturated market, where in the hospitality and craft brewing space, three to 5% year over year increases would be considered a strong increase.

Jay Johnson:

And especially now, because it seems like it seems like there's a big move towards like mocktails and partake, you know, non-alcoholics or any of those types of things. That seems like you know from the upcoming generations that drinking is on the decline. You also have market factors that are on the decline, so that 13% year over year is pretty incredible. I just I want to point that out.

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, and you know that's the hats off to him. And I'll start with this general manager first. I think, as leaders, receiving coaching, receiving guidance, having the mindset to balance again, mindset to balance again both the burden and the responsibility, the ownership of understanding that you run the ship, the ship sails or it sinks with you, that ownership balanced with the healthy ego that we were talking about early Jay, to say, though I have that level of responsibility, though I command that level of responsibility, though I command that level of authority and decision-making power, I am still not above learning, absorbing new information and being a student, probably more often than I'm actually showing up as a leader, and probably I'd say that's the biggest thing that a leader can do is demonstrate to their people that there's value in being a student, even at the highest rungs. It's empowering, I think.

Jay Johnson:

Trainers and coaches. Take that, because, as a trainer and coach, one of the most important things is that we never stop learning ourselves and valuing that process of learning. So I agree with that, andrew Keep going.

Andrew Almazan:

Absolutely and valuing that process of learning. So I agree with that, andrew, keep going Absolutely. So you know. Long story short though you know 13% year over year increase when we look at January to January Q4, 6% growth year over year. And then, in terms of his Q4 sales, he beat the goal by 2%. So three major metrics, I mean you know.

Andrew Almazan:

Next we're gonna work on how do we continue to build a record of achievement for this general manager so that they can continue to ramp up, grow, keep vying for resources and keep innovating new opportunities to generate revenue. But at the same time, by generating revenue, there's a lot more to gain. The community gains because now you have this beautiful place that patrons feel that like they can call a home away from home. New networking opportunities are happening, so like everyone stands to gain within the ecosystem. But enough on that side. How did we get there right?

Andrew Almazan:

So it really started with the strength-based approach. I'm a big believer in it. Um, you know, uh, focusing on someone's strengths and doubling down on those. Not to say that we shouldn't pay attention to people's gaps, but I think that there's, um, there's a book out there. I forget the name of the book, but it talks about. Uh, you know the movie Rudy and um, the great movie, a great classic. But it flipped the, the concept of kind of you know, taking somebody who maybe wasn't as proficient and pouring all that time into energy to get the one touchdown. It challenges that perception by saying what if we focused on what Rudy was strong at, maybe Rudy was like a highly analytical strategist, maybe he might've been a better, you know, sideline advisor to the coach, right and still contributing to the team's wins or their performance.

Jay Johnson:

Yeah, you know Gallup and their Strength Finders assessment is actually one of the assessments that I've really used and their whole approach is if you're spending most of your time in your top five strengths, you're probably going to be happier, more productive and feel more valued for the work that you're doing than if you're spending the rest of your time on the other 28 or however many strengths there are that are below that in the strengths DNA. So there's some pretty good evidence that's been done by Gallup on how important it is to really sort of stay I don't want to say stay in your lane, because we can always develop, we can always learn new things but really kind of tapping into that and saying, hey, let's spend 80% of our time dedicated in this strength world and you know if you're going to do other things, really only make that 20% of your time or whatever the you know, whatever the, whatever the percentages might lie on that. So, yeah, how do you help people find? And really kind of because now I'm going to say this and this is coming I used to be a hockey player, I used to be an MMA person, I used to be a number of things and there was a lot of people who thought that they had really good strengths and they were probably their biggest gaps and weaknesses.

Jay Johnson:

And then there was other people that were thinking to themselves that they had these gaps and weaknesses and it's just like, really you think that that's a gap, like that's one of your biggest strengths. How do you help them sort of navigate that space of either, you know, that sort of bias perception of strength or the we'll call it the imposter perception of strength?

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, there's a couple of ways I think that you could do that. You know, as a coach, depending on what your level of you know, uh, empathy is right, I think. I. I really do think that that is one of those X factor traits that helps, uh, a coach, a trainer, an executive kind of, read that gap qualitatively. Hey, is this person as we're having this conversation, you can sense if that person's self-perception is in alignment with what others might perceive, that external perception. And I think if you're a coach, trainer, executive, qualitatively you could start there. Oh man, this person's actually pretty centered, they're good, they're locked in with their self-perception and external perception. You can then act as a coach to guide that person, have them objectify some of those areas. But let's say, maybe you want to fact check, you want to fact check what you're reading. You could facilitate a 360 sort of peer review. You can gather data, you can gather feedback from people that either that person trusts as well within their organization and on their team. You can hold kind of private one-on-one sessions and build a picture. I think that that's what.

Andrew Almazan:

When I say coach, coach, moving forward through the rest of this conversation, you know I'm talking about anybody who has taken on the mantle of coaching somebody, taking on that. You know that honored time, time and energy that it takes to help someone develop. Um, you can build that picture by interviewing others, getting a scope of the perception, and then from there you can kind of start to diagnose what are these consistent patterns that we're seeing? You're mowing over in conversation? Or you're highly analytical, but people tend to say that you work in a silo. They're not really sure the trust and collaboration isn't really felt. Analytical, but people tend to say that you work in a silo. They're not really sure you know the trust and collaboration isn't really felt, but people definitely rate you high in your intelligence and your ability to you know, analyze and come to smart fiscal decisions for this business. These sorts of you know one-liner statements. We can then present that and then create a roadmap for development.

Jay Johnson:

That's smart. The 360 approach is super powerful and even you know, even getting executives sometimes to ask for authentic feedback and creating the space for somebody to feel safe in giving them feedback. I know that that's something that, as the CEO of my company, it is one of those things where I have pounded into my team. Look, I am a human. I make mistakes, there are things that I don't see and that are gaps, and I am a student of learning. You have to help me and you can help me by giving me good feedback and telling me how I could be the better leader for you.

Jay Johnson:

So I love that 360 approach and getting that outside perspective, and even you know whether it's qualitative or quantitative. You know those perceptions create reality. So I might think that I'm the absolute most inspiring person and you know, if the perception of my team is now you're not all that inspiring, well, I need to take a step back, like we talked about earlier, and say, well, why, what is it that I'm not doing or how could I show up in a different way? That's going to create the perception that I'm feeling inside.

Andrew Almazan:

Yeah, I want to add something real quick. Jay, you just inspired a thought too, when you said to your team like you know, um, you know, to hold me accountable essentially right In so many words. That reminds me I helped facilitate a three, 64, um, uh, a VP at the media company and one of the things that netted the best feedback and this is a tip for anybody who's planning or or sees the value in doing it for somebody on their team is doing a good job with the internal marketing. I always come back to that. That's.

Andrew Almazan:

Another best practice to get some tangible KPIs is you have to bring your people along for the journey. It's not when you're coaching an executive, because of the amount of things and the amount of silos that an executive's impact can influence. You have to bring on the entire organization, or, at the very least, key departments, along for the journey, so communicating to your people. What we did with the VP was we let them know. Hey, full canter guys, full disclosure.

Andrew Almazan:

This VP has chosen to lean into uncovering the benefits of going through a self-development process. Part of that process is a 360 review and we're going to have key milestones as part of their development, because they're so committed to increasing the success of this organization and we also value your guys' feedback through this process. At the beginning we want to take a baseline, in the middle we want to give this executive an opportunity to course correct and at the end we want to let them know how they're faring and what they can do outside and pass this engagement. We would love to secure some of your time through these miles, these, these points in the road. Would that be okay? You know, that's that's kind of how we got that best view and that was a great 360 facilitation when we took the time to slow down and say there's more communication involved in making sure that this process is not just, you know, accomplished, but we absolutely knock it out of the park too is.

Jay Johnson:

You know, if we improve the internal communication of everything, like our trainings, what's the purpose, what's the intent, how they can help, how they can support, why it achieves a business objective, why it impacts the individual that's going there? You know that internal communication is oftentimes it's just assumed right, like it's assumed like oh, I got a 360. It's just assumed right, like it's assumed like oh, I got a 360. And we assume that everybody on the team already knows well, it's a 360. It must be because the VP is trying to develop or trying to do something great or trying to be better. But even though it's assumed, it's actually not, it's not there and that internal communication can really align and then also show people that internal communication can really align and then also show people, hey, you know what this 360 feedback or whatever, this survey feedback, this interview, it actually matters and somebody is going to be looking at it. Because I mean, how many times do we take surveys or whatever else, and be like is anybody actually reading this shit? You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.

Jay Johnson:

That internal communication. It's a great, a great, great tip.

Andrew Almazan:

I really like that one yeah and jay, I just I I can't stress it enough, you know like. I know we live we well, I've been parts of conversations where, you know, people have played devil's advocate. Other people in the senior leadership team have said and I get it I um the sensitivity to time and energy and where we place it, especially when we're focusing on an initiative, sat in a room with business partners and the devil's advocate might be saying is that the best use of our time? If we've got X amount of time to spin up this initiative and crush it, we're already all bought in, but is that where it needs to go? You know, um being we live in an in a world where people do need to be reminded of the value and the impact that their contribution is going to have directly on an initiative.

Andrew Almazan:

Because the digital age, we're, we're we're fed so much information and we're we're fed so many call to actions. It really comes down to that. Right Like, we need to remind someone that, look, this is not just another 10 pings in your spam email box. Right Like this is if you can dedicate at least five focused minutes, you are having an integral impact to this professional's development and if they develop, this entire company stands to gain.

Jay Johnson:

Yep, brilliant, andrew. There's so much good out of this conversation that, if you're a trainer, if you're a coach, an HR person that's listening I hope you're able to take some of these concepts and really think about how you can put them into practice. But, andrew, how would they get in touch with you if they wanted to connect?

Andrew Almazan:

reach out and find my information at wwwbraveleadershipguildcom. You can find me, andrew Almazan, at LinkedIn. And then I also have an Instagram where I share kind of just free value. I do carousel posts where, using some real world experiences, I just like want to put it out into the feed. So brave leadership guild on Instagram.

Jay Johnson:

It's incredible, Andrew. I want to put it out into the feed so brave leadership guild on Instagram. It's incredible. Andrew, I want to say thank you for being here with us today, for sharing your insights, both as the VP of people as well as your current role, and you know your approach to coaching. I really love the philosophy. I think that there's so many great things that we can incorporate from this conversation, so thank you for taking the time to be here with us today.

Andrew Almazan:

Jay, thank you. It's an honor to meet you, man, and good luck to you and your initiatives down the road and everyone else that listens as well. Good luck to all you guys on your journey.

Jay Johnson:

Yes, and thank you, audience, for tuning into this episode of the Talent Forge, where we are shaping the future of training and development.

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Jay Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements

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