The Talent Forge: Shaping the Future of Training and Development with Jay Johnson

Strategic Storytelling: The Key to Transformational Training with Aleya Harris

• Jay Johnson • Season 1 • Episode 36

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How do you turn mandatory corporate training from a dreaded box-checking exercise into an engaging experience that actually changes behavior? The answer lies in strategic storytelling.

In this eye-opening episode, Aleya Harris, a strategic storytelling consultant, reveals how the same storytelling frameworks used in marketing can revolutionize leadership development and corporate training. Drawing from her background as a marketing executive and entrepreneur, Aleya shares how she accidentally discovered the power of storytelling in building high-performing teams and authentic leadership.

Whether you're designing onboarding programs, leadership development initiatives, or mandatory compliance training, this episode offers practical strategies to engage participants as active heroes in their own learning journey rather than passive recipients of information. 

Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com

Jay Johnson:

Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge, where we are shaping the future of training and development. We've got a really special guest here today, Aleya Harris. Welcome to the show.

Aleya Harris:

Thank you so much for having me, Jay. I am super happy to be here.

Jay Johnson:

Well, I am super happy for you to be here, because I think the audience is going to take away some really amazing concepts in relation to storytelling and a number of other things, so why don't we get the audience up to speed on you? How did you get into talent development? What are you working on and you know? Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Aleya Harris:

Absolutely so. I am a self-proclaimed strategic storytelling consultant, so I help people use stories to reach the highest versions of themselves and to build themselves up as better leaders and better members of a collaborative culture. So I got into that by accident. So I was a marketer, marketing executive, entrepreneur and I've always had a knack for building good teams. People that have worked for me continue to either follow me from company to company or they have continued to want to be mentored by me and when, I it's a great sign, right, I know it's better than me just saying I'm really good at this and it's like how do you know?

Aleya Harris:

Because no one ever wants to talk to you ever again. No, I promise people like my leadership style and so I started asking, like well, in a non you know ego pumping way, why, why is it that you like my leadership style? And they said things well, you're authentic, you have great energy, you make me feel like I can do anything. Um, and I feel motivated and supported and I said, oh, that's good, and I'm like how the heck do I do that?

Aleya Harris:

because I couldn't really articulate how the how? So I started paying attention to myself as I was building myself as a storytelling thought leader and I realized that, duh, of course that's what I do. I use storytelling frameworks to build people up, to help them realize where they are in their individual stories, what the general story is of what we're trying to accomplish together, what their role is, what the pitfalls are, how they can overcome, giving them the tools they need to play their proverbial dragons on their hero's journey. And in that process, I decided to lean in and develop frameworks that I use for not only differentiation, but I realize that something that you would use as a storytelling device to stand out from a marketing perspective or to build trust in a sales perspective is the same type of storytelling that you would use to help people understand why you, as a human being, are not so different from them as a human being, and what are the same human things that we value together and how can we go on a shared journey rather than parallel journeys that never intersect.

Jay Johnson:

I love that Aleya, and there's a couple of things that I'm going to dig in. Number one is some of those frameworks, but first of all, the fact that you said I kind of got into this space on accident. I can't tell you how many guests, and myself included, all kind of found ourselves into that talent development space by accident. But something that you know as you bring up this concept of storytelling my background being in psychology, neuroscience and looking at sort of like our evolution as a species on this planet we started with teaching and training literally through storytelling. I mean, this is how different knowledge was passed along and everything else. So when we think about the HR and trainers and coaches that are listening here, how do you essentially build your different trainings or coaching opportunities? How do you build that story into it? Or how do you build that storytelling into it?

Aleya Harris:

The first thing that you need to do is to realize that, as the story architect and the story creator, you are also part of the story because you are part of your company. So most people forget about that as the first step and they go in and they're like I'm from corporate and I'm here to help. Right, awesome, thank you so much. It said nobody on the other side of that speech.

Aleya Harris:

Yeah, you're moving to think of yourself as sitting in a circle with everyone else, where your story also contributes to the collective. That means that you have to get a little bit vulnerable. You have to be able to see yourself as a fallible human who has made mistakes, to learn from them, and because of that, that is what makes you super qualified to get your team through whatever challenge is happening right now. If you just approach the conversation as I am perfect, this plan is perfect. You have not co-created or collaborated in this plan at all, but I am going to shut down your throat from on high. I think that we know how that ends and it's not well.

Jay Johnson:

And I think we've seen that from a number of organizations or organizational cultures where it is sort of like oh, now I'm going to ask a question here because I think in some cases you do have a population of employees that seem to be looking to the leadership for the vision, for everything else like that, and sort of want that guidelines. Can you talk about the concepts of co-creation right, where the leadership may feel obligated to provide that vision, that direction or whatever it is, and while the you know employee base or the team or whomever may feel that it's the leadership's responsibility, how do we create the conditions for co-creation when each side is already stepping into this sort of role or this normative narrative?

Aleya Harris:

Don't think of your role as a hierarchy role, even though it is. Think of your roles as skills base and what you all bring to the table. So, for example, the Ivory Tower folks, probably you who are listening to this podcast you have a leadership role and that means that you have what much more in-depth view of financials and a broader view of the business. But you're not in the day-to-day and so for any wide reaching plan to be successful, you need someone who has in-depth knowledge of the day-to-day. Well, guess what? That's probably the team member that you're about to tell this plan to. So what you might do is from say, from where we are at our financials are telling us this we're trying to move in this direction. Here's the overall vision, but what we need your thought in is what would this look like on a day-to-day basis? Can you help inform from what your skill set is? Think about it this way Imagine you all are Dumbledore and you're talking to harry potter.

Aleya Harris:

I don't know how well you know harry potter, but at some point in time they're walking around trying to find these horcruxes to kill. He who must not be named. And dumbledore needs help, and he literally needs this stuff. He needed help. It wasn't like, you know, like I have a toddler and'm like help me in the kitchen, and it's really just to avoid her from getting into whatever she's getting into in the living room, like she's not actually helping me. He really needed support and so he brought Harry with him to help him out, to find a horcrux and do the things. And then Dumbledore actually ends up being wounded and Harry was integral to that experience. They were a partnership and of course everyone knows that Dumbledore was the most powerful wizard in the world and Harry's this like student, like that, was never in question. But Dumbledore was wise enough to check his ego and realize that it's about a skill set and an experience and an exposure conversation rather than a hierarchical one. The same thing goes for the storytelling.

Jay Johnson:

Yeah, and I like that approach because I mean it is really kind of getting back into that concepts of adult learning and involving somebody in that learning journey and involving them into their own story, because while my story I am the main character of my own story, everybody that's sitting in that room is the main character of their own story.

Jay Johnson:

So them sitting there and sort of just getting told something versus them actively engaging or being involved in the co-creation of the knowledge seems to be a really powerful way for us to do that. Now I want to dig back into something that you said a little bit ago about the authenticity and the vulnerability, because I think this is something that's often scary for a trainer or for a coach or even for an HR person to say I've been there or I've experienced that and I failed right, like sometimes a trainer or whomever that's put at the front of the room or even a leader. The expectation is all this you know we put all this pressure on ourselves that we need to know everything, we need to feel everything. We can't look like we're. You know that we don't belong there. Imposter syndrome starts to play into the equation and it blocks us from really getting into that vulnerable space. How might we be able to navigate that more effectively? Aleya.

Aleya Harris:

The first thing that I want you to ask yourself is what is your role truly? You've told yourself, and fed into the popular belief, that you are the sage on stage. You're the one who needs to have all of the answers. You put together the PowerPoint and the workshop materials and so you must know everything. And I posit to you that that's actually not your role. Your role is to deliver an outcome. An outcome is that they learn something, their behaviors change, they've had a mental paradigm shift. That's what you're trying to deliver.

Aleya Harris:

And in order to best deliver that outcome, people need to participate in their own transformation. They cannot do that if they feel like the transformation's already done for them and they're just sitting there, eyes glazed over, wondering when lunch is happening. That's what happens when you have a sage on stage saying I know everything in here, just take notes and do this. They need to explore, they need to understand that this is a road that has been traveled before, so that they can feel like you know what you're doing. And it is the pitfalls that give you the credibility. If someone says to you we're going to implement a new performance management system I've implemented 10 performance management systems before, never had a problem, you're like, okay, that makes me feel great. But in the back of your mind you're also like but what if we have a problem? What if something goes wrong? That relatable factor yeah, they've never done problems before, They've only done perfection before. So if we have a problem, they're not going to know what to do.

Jay Johnson:

Right Now. How do we balance that, though? Because we don't want to come in and be like I have done 10 performance management things and I screwed up every single one of them. They're going to go, you're right. So we know that's. You know. We know that that is obviously not how we want to show up or how we want to perform. We know that we don't want to be the sage on stage. How do we, how do we navigate that balance, that delicate balance of I share enough, but not too much, or I'm sharing the right kind of vulnerabilities, and not telling you all about a particular aspect that maybe is not related to this. Um, and I'm going to dig back into the results thing, cause, that's obviously something I really, really put forward, but let's navigate this. How do we fine tune that space of vulnerability for it to be the appropriate space?

Aleya Harris:

You share a story of vulnerability because you are wanting to connect their problems to your passion and experience. You share a crisis story to articulate a path forward. It's either a common crisis, one that they're feeling, one that they're experiencing, or one that you see in their new future, or one that you're trying to get them to avoid. You see them heading for a train wreck and you're trying to reroute the tracks. The purpose is not to just share willy-nilly. That's why I call myself a strategic storytelling consultant, because it's all asking yourself what is the reason for sharing this story? What am I trying to get them to understand, believe or know that they don't know now, so that they again can participate in their own transformation? Where are they stuck, or where are they about to get stuck, and how can me telling a story help them understand that they're not alone, that this sticking point is totally overcomable, and I am the perfect person to tell them how to overcome it. And here are the three steps to overcome it. This is what we're going to do, yeah.

Jay Johnson:

Well, and I like it because you brought it back to the area that I was going to talk about the results, right, the outcomes. What outcomes are we actually going for? How are we measuring those outcomes, what do they look like, and really making sure that the vulnerability matches there, that it's not just a story for story's sake, but there's actually a purpose behind the story. So something that we often push here is knowledge without action is a failed training as far as I'm concerned, because if you're not actually changing the behaviors towards a business outcome, you're not getting results and you're a luxury and not a necessity which all in necessity right, so let's talk about that.

Jay Johnson:

How do we relate storytelling to the actual results focused strategies that a business wants? You know, a business comes in and says Aleya, I need you to put together a communications training because our team's not great at customer service or whatever else it is. How do we approach that from a storytelling slash, design, development, implementation. Can you walk us through a little bit of that process?

Aleya Harris:

Absolutely. First, you need to know what the story is. Story is a sense makingmaking, clarification and emotion-driving device. It's the way that our brains already work and it allows us to understand concepts and internalize them and match them with our current emotions, which causes movement. That's what motivation is. So the reason why you're using story in the first place is because you are trying to do what you said create some movement, create some change, get people off their butts and doing something in the first place. And the way I like to do that is through my story-driven leadership framework.

Aleya Harris:

It often happens where there are people are disconnected or they have a lack of self-awareness and they have challenges in bringing people either together or bringing people on board to an idea in the general population don't understand what it means for their life, and then they don't understand how to follow the breadcrumbs from where they are now to where you're trying to get them to go. So the first thing I like to do is to get real and to have a moment of recognition of where we are, what the current narratives are that we're telling ourselves and we're saying collectively, intentionally or unintentionally, and what our biases are for or against action. So this involves things like excavating current stories, mapping biases to current beliefs and behaviors and revealing how those personal experiences are shaping the world that we're in. So we have those aha moments of oh my goodness, no wonder why we're stuck, no wonder why this is not going to work, no wonder why we are here, because we're doing all of these things and we're telling ourselves these stories.

Jay Johnson:

Can I give an example of I think and help me understand if I'm wrong, but I think during COVID, right, and as CEO of my company, I've got a team of 14 amazing, amazing, awesome individuals. A lot of times and this was something that I would say in my leadership journey or my leadership cycle, I would often be the problem solver, the chief problem solver, right Like so it would be oh, let's do this, let's come up with this and everything else.

Jay Johnson:

During COVID I mean, it was so novel and things that occurred it was one of those where I think my team kind of expected like, okay, what's the vision? And this was my approach. I, literally in our all teams meeting, I said, okay, I know that in the past it's been one of those hey, what's the direction, what's the vision, jay? And usually I've had some kind of idea. But, team, I'm going to be perfectly honest with you, I have absolutely no clue, right right, I'm just as lost in this space as you are.

Jay Johnson:

So this today is not going to be. Here's what we're going to do in our vision. Here's today is going to be. Helped me come up with some ideas of how we're going to navigate this forward together. And so like, in that moment I knew that the story was Jay's going to have an answer, or maybe Jay has an answer, or he's got an idea or a direction. But shifting that story, calling that story out, is that kind of what you're speaking to here, or is there a different way that that could have been approached? What are your thoughts on that, aliyah?

Aleya Harris:

I think that you did a great job approaching that, and that's part of it, but that's almost just like the beginning of it, because then it would go deeper in. Well, what are you team members thinking now? What is a story you're telling yourself about the current COVID situation? That it's impossible I always use fairytale analogies because people can understand them that the dragon is unslayable, that this is not a journey worth going on. What do you think? And then you hear the stories, probably write them down. Do some group sharing? Oh, okay, Now that we're understanding where we are, maybe we pull some themes out. This is where we are. Will this current thought process help us solve this problem? And if it won't, what part of this do we need to replace with a better story? And then how do we go about doing that? So if we're like COVID is unsolvable problem, let's just close the doors now and save ourselves headache right, Like let's say that that's what came out. Hopefully that wasn't, but let's say that we're going home.

Aleya Harris:

And then this is where you're like when do I lead and when do I not lead? This is when you, jay, you come in and you say, well, so we're not going to do that. What my vision is that the ultimate goal, the ultimate reward here if the night goes on this quest is for us to make the same amount of profit this year as last year. That is my challenge to you. That's like at the beginning of the fairy tale when the good fairy says here's your quest, young grasshopper, whatever. So then you're like so now we have a disconnect.

Aleya Harris:

How do we match this? Your story is this. The story that we need to tell is that we can do this and this is a solvable challenge. So how do we make that story up? This is a solvable challenge. I feel confident about this. We deserve to make results, regardless of what's happening in the world. We are fully resourced. How do we break that down? Using a story structure to see what we are missing in our current mentality. That needs to match our future story so we can get the results that we're after.

Jay Johnson:

Okay.

Aleya Harris:

Does that?

Jay Johnson:

make sense? Yeah, absolutely, so, all right, so now I've got a better picture of this this sort of entry, entry space. You were continuing on with the story. So once the once the leader identifies the stories, looks at that sort of identifies where the actual outcome or what the end result ultimately is. Where do we go from there, Alaya?

Aleya Harris:

Then it's time to get clear. Then you're like okay, we're going to adapt, get our shifted perspective and challenge those current narratives and explore the what-if scenarios to uncover new possibilities. Then we're also going to clarify so we're going to transform and shift those narratives into actionable, value-driven narratives. So you would go through like well, it's a very different thing to say we're going to make the same profit as last year. There's no, that's a close-ended statement. You're like all right, boss, well, I guess I'll get on that Versus. What if we made the same profit as last year? What would that take? What if we felt super empowered right now? What would that look like? What if COVID lasts forever and social distancing never ends? What would that look like? And you invite curiosity as a clarification device. What you're trying to do is to circumvent the fear, the stagnation, the limiting beliefs that us as humans hold hold. Often, when we come together, we treat humans as widgets or robots, rather than actual human beings who have emotions and thought processes that go into these very professional sounding big boy and girl documents that we create, when, in reality, to get change actually to happen, you have to treat people as humans. And so when you have those what if scenarios and there's clarification scenarios you get the team to begin to see and question where they are and imagine for themselves a better vision which, coincidentally, shock and awe will most likely align with the one that you already gave them. But this is what I'm telling you. It's about them participating in the story as a collective hero. Think like robin hood and his merry men, or like gladys knight and the pips, or like beyonce and destiny's child. Like it's everyone together you're beyonce in this scenario. By the way, jane needs child. Like it's everyone together You're Beyonce in this scenario. By the way. Jay, everyone, you're very welcome. Highest praise I can give anybody.

Aleya Harris:

I take that You're moving as a collective because they came into this retreat scenario meeting as 10-ish individuals. Your job is to get them to come together as a team with a shared perspective, moving in the same direction, creating a story that is transforming towards success and away from failure. So then, the third step is you get connected. So you've gotten real, you've gotten clear, and then you get connected, and this is when you get to evolve. You've gotten clear on what the narrative needs to be, where you're going. Start implementing story sessions in your all-hands meeting you have, maybe in your sales meetings you have okay, let's do a sales pipeline review and then also let's tell the story of how we would have done this before and how now we're doing it differently because we're participating in a new narrative and you provide story structure snippets to everyday things that they're already doing. This is lifted and lovingly collaborated with the atomic habit habit methodology. If you've ever read atomic habits, right, right.

Jay Johnson:

For those of you paying attention at home, read Atomic Habits. James Clear is the author. It's an incredible book. Yep, incredible book.

Aleya Harris:

And one of the things that he mentions in that book is the best way to create a new habit is to attach it to something that you already are doing. You're already having all hands meeting. Why not add 10 minutes for storytelling? Why not structure the meeting differently? That relates now to your new narrative, where you talk about in the beginning, and it's every meeting. These are the new problems we're trying to solve. This is the narrative we're trying to tell.

Aleya Harris:

How have you helped today? Right, have someone else come on and talk about what they've done that supported this new narrative? That's how we create change. That's how we build intentional culture, because culture is built whether you are intentional about it or not. So let's build it intentionally and you then are building also better leaders, because, in order to have someone telling a story, guess what has to happen on the other side? Someone listening to the story and that's one of the things that leaders don't do enough of, in my opinion is listening, because like you said, we're listening to the stories that are surrounding them, because they feel like what you said I have to have all the answers, so I can't listen.

Aleya Harris:

I got to talk, just like everybody's grandmama said.

Jay Johnson:

You got two ears in the organization and you know if I'm in the leadership position and I'm trying to create this co-created, co-created vision of what if and really kind of looking towards this direction. Let's say that and I always pick on poor security trainings right, like the one that everybody has to go to no one has a choice, no one wants to be there. They're clicking through or they're, you know a lot of times. They're online now, so you just hit the button as fast as you possibly can and then you okay, let's, let's talk about that, because every organization has some level of security training, whatever that is. That could be safety, that could be something that it's the vegetables Sometimes you got to eat them.

Aleya Harris:

You got to do it that it's the vegetables.

Jay Johnson:

sometimes you got to eat them, you got to do it. Nobody's really looking for it. It's not the dessert course. How can we utilize, maybe, this framework, this story framework, to make some of those types of things where it's almost the mundane or the um, you know, the necessary but not exciting type ventures? How might we be able to incorporate this concept into that?

Aleya Harris:

Jay, I will tell you. Story makes everything sexy, so challenge accepted. Thank you very much. The first thing you have to ask yourself before you even get into story structure is why should anybody care about this thing? Right and not? Why should they care? Because they're good Cause I'm a company man, like you know, not in that sense. But why should they? Why should Sarah care? Why should Jack care? Why should they care as individuals?

Jay Johnson:

Yeah.

Aleya Harris:

Start from that place and then build the story from there. So let's say that you're just like a normal I don't know ad agency, like you, don't. You're not like doing government secret stuff, where it's like ultimate tip top security, but like normal security, like you got a badge in and out, yep Right, and you're trying to figure out, okay, why should Sarah care about using her badge properly and checking in guests properly and all of that stuff? Well, sarah should care because all of her stuff could get stolen from her desk. Sarah should care because then, if we are in a lockdown, she might not be able to get to her family on time. Sarah should care because if they steal her computer, all of the work that's on it, that her project that she's been working on for three months, is now gone. That's why Sarah should care, and we often don't think about why Sarah and individual care should care. We say things like as a good steward of company resources, you too should use.

Jay Johnson:

You know what I?

Aleya Harris:

mean Like and everyone's like don't put the company at risk.

Jay Johnson:

Yeah, exactly yeah.

Aleya Harris:

Don't put Sarah at risk, and I know that we don't often like to think of people like this, but everyone's a narcissist with short attention spans. That's how I talk to everyone when I'm developing something, because although everyone, especially you, know you have great intentions and maybe they do love your company, would do anything for your company. They believe your company colors the end of the day, everyone is still making decisions based on themselves. If they have to decide between your company or taking care of their aging parent that needs full-time care, guess who's gonna win? It is not your company, it's not and it and it shouldn't be. And if it is, I have some serious questions right.

Jay Johnson:

Right, we have. We have different stories to tell at that point.

Aleya Harris:

Yeah, yeah, something's going on there, that little funky donkey. So that's the first place that you just need to be in the headspace of before you even start telling the story. Then you go through the framework, you think about okay, what is the moment where I need her to recognize the current narrative? Let's talk about Sarah, because when I develop things, I like to have one person in my mind. It's probably an archetype person, but one person in my mind, sarah, the advertising account director, who is super busy but a lot of high value work that she's doing.

Jay Johnson:

Going back to those marketing days with the buyer persona, aren't we Aleya?

Aleya Harris:

We are. We are, and that is actually because I mean I'm sorry I probably should have said spoiler alert to all these listeners I am not an HR professional. Did anybody get that? I haven't been a marketer, however, for 15 years. That's why I'm so good at this, because I don't think like an HR professional. I haven't been indoctrinated with you people. I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid. I can actually be the one that looks at the Kool-Aid and be like wasn't that supposed to be red? It's kind of orange. Did anybody notice that? That's me.

Aleya Harris:

And so I use multidisciplinary ways, from psychology to human design, to marketing and storytelling. I apply it to HR. So, yes, good eye Buyer personas Can't help it. Can't help myself. So you of sarah and you're like what is sarah currently telling herself? And I need sarah to do step one get real with what that is and have a recognition aha moment of what exactly are her biases and what is she saying now. So that's the first part of the training to get sarah to realize where. So that's the first part of the training to get Sarah to realize where she is at. The first part of the training is not here is your badge. Red badges mean this. Green badges mean that Always look out for the person behind you Like come on man.

Jay Johnson:

It's about.

Aleya Harris:

Where are you at now and why is that helping or hurting you as Sarah and also us as the company? Then you get clear. You want her to have that shifted perspective. You have what if? Scenarios in the training. What if you allowed someone to tailgate behind you using their badge? That's not supposed to be there. They come in and they steal your computer there. They come in and they steal your computer. They come in and they have maybe come in on your badge and they do something funky and it shows that you did it and you have no way of proving that it wasn't you.

Aleya Harris:

Yep, what? What happened then, sarah? And so now, all of a sudden, sarah sorry, my trainings get a little flassy sometimes so then then you're getting Sarah to go. Oh, oh, wait a minute, hold on a second. This is actually important to me and the company and I should be paying attention. You're building in, buying, and then you get them to clarify and then you build it into the daily ritual so it doesn't just end when she gets the certificate at the end of the virtual training. Right, you have maybe pop-up safety checks or maybe you have a. I don't know if this is actually. You can do this. See, this is when my non-HR self comes in. Maybe one day someone takes Sarah's computer, like in HR right, and you're like, no everybody, someone took sarah's computer. Wow, could this have happened?

Aleya Harris:

and you have like a, almost like a fire drill, basically safety fire drill yep so you have experiences that embed it into normal ways of working, or sometimes slightly abnormal, to get it to be a lived experience rather than just something that's clicked through.

Jay Johnson:

Alayah, this is incredible and I love the concepts here. If our audience was going to get a hold of you, how would they reach out to you?

Aleya Harris:

You would go to evolutioncollectivecom evolutioncollectivecom and you would click schedule a call and we could talk all about it, because this is what I'm passionate about is using storytelling to help people be better, come together and be more productive, so I'd love to talk to you about that, if that's your cup of tea and this is the reason that I love this so much is because I think a lot of times when we're in that design phase, when we're in that delivery phase, we often forget about the storytelling aspect.

Jay Johnson:

You know, it's like I've only got an hour, I've got to deliver as much content or as much knowledge as I can and I've got to really tell them why they've got to do this. And, in a bow at the sort of the end of the hour is, if we really want to get somebody to change their behavior, we've got to get them to be a part of the story, and the tactics I think that you shared here today will really help us do that.

Aleya Harris:

Yes, I know they will, cause they have. I am fully confident and I was so excited about it because what if, what if people actually liked your trainings?

Jay Johnson:

What if that next security training was something that shifted and saved your butt?

Aleya Harris:

What if? What if?

Jay Johnson:

Well, I love it. Thank you, Aleya. I really appreciate you being here and for sharing your wisdom and your approach to this. I think it was really, really helpful and definitely something for our audience to take away. So thank you again.

Aleya Harris:

Thank you for having me, Jay.

Jay Johnson:

And thank you, audience, for tuning into this episode of the Talent Forge, where we are shaping the future of training and development.

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Jay Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements

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