The Talent Forge: Shaping the Future of Training and Development with Jay Johnson

Beyond the Self: Creating Waves of Positivity in Work and Life with Jon Sabes

• Jay Johnson • Season 1 • Episode 50

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Take a deep dive into the philosophy that transforms daily habits into lifelong success with serial entrepreneur Jon Sabes. This conversation uncovers the power of "small, consistent efforts made upstream that lead to significant downstream effects" across all areas of life.

Jon shares his journey as a two-decade entrepreneur who's built multiple companies, gone public, and experienced both incredible success and massive challenges. Through these experiences, he's developed practical wisdom about what truly drives performance and happiness.

The conversation explores the true nature of happiness as a journey rather than a destination. Jon differentiates between hedonic pursuits (self-indulgent behaviors) versus virtuous activities that create ripples of positivity around you. His insights on delayed gratification will transform how you think about short-term versus long-term rewards: "When you're 70, and when you're 80, and God willing, when you're 90 or even 100... you want to be able to look back and say my life has been a dream."

Whether you're seeking personal growth, building a team, or simply trying to find more joy in daily life, John's approach to pursuing happiness through intentional daily practices will give you practical tools to implement immediately. Connect with Jon: https://jonsabes.com/

Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com

Jay Johnson:

Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge, where we are shaping the future of training and development. I am joined by special guest Jon Sabes. Welcome to the show, Jon. Thanks, jay, great to be here Now. You have an incredible story and I would love to tell it for you. But since you're here, I figured I'd ask you why don't you introduce yourself to the audience and tell them a little bit about how you got into this talent development space?

Jon Sabes:

the audience and tell them a little bit about how you got into this talent development space. Sure Well, I guess I'm a serial entrepreneur. I've been kind of doing entrepreneurial stuff for almost two decades now and built several companies and had some just incredible success and some massive challenges, as every entrepreneur really does, yeah.

Jon Sabes:

So my journey's no exception to the rule and I guess, yeah, I've had the chance to lead teams and develop teams and have teams fall away from me and teams fall in behind me, so it's definitely such an incredible part of the journey. So, yeah, my journey as a serial entrepreneur in financial services over two decades I've built several companies, gone public, been listed, had exits. I've done a lot. I'm always in the sort of longevity space, financial services space, which kind of developed this sort of again this career into healthy longevity and financial services, life insurance, annuities, financial products and services. So that's kind of my specialty. I also got into molecular biomarkers of health and longevity through that, with a tech spinoff on that. So I became sort of a self-learned expert in epigenetic aging, uh, gene expression and and how does this uh beautiful body called, called the human, you know, actually function?

Jay Johnson:

Oh, now you're speaking my language when we start getting into the genetics, epigenetics and all the fun stuff of uh, neurobiology and all those different impacts. But one of the things that really attracted me to having this conversation with you was partially from your personal philosophy. I really loved when I read just an excerpt. Success in life comes from small, consistent efforts made upstream that lead to significant downstream effects, whether in health, wealth or personal fulfillment, and you apply that through your daily life through discipline regimen. That includes journaling, strength training, healthy eating and sauna. I'm a big sauna fan myself. I knew we'd get along and especially, you know, in these northern climates it's a necessity. So I want to talk about that first, if we can, Jon. What do you mean by these small, consistent efforts made upstream?

Jon Sabes:

Yeah, when we talk about small again, how do we swallow the whale One bite at a time?

Jon Sabes:

So how do we affect this dream life that we're all on our own journey and we all want to build this beautiful life of our own design.

Jon Sabes:

And the way we're going to do that, right, is only by small, little increments of betterment, right. And so if we attack our goals and objectives in life in small bits, right, you get there. And so that's kind of this idea where I think too often we try, we have these big dreams, these big goals, and we feel like we so quickly can get disappointed in the progress, because it takes a long time to accomplish big things, and so it's much easier to accomplish smaller things. And if you direct your thoughts and your actions towards those smaller things in these positive directions, whether they be in your business, in your mental attitude, whether your own health, what I like to say is you increase the odds, you increase the probability that you get where you want, and that's where I'm writing to. So it's these small actions, and you have to program your subconscious so this stuff becomes almost automatic in these directional habits towards building a life of your dreams, and that's kind of what I'm talking about.

Jay Johnson:

And see, I love that because in so many cases, especially in the field of talent development, immediately we, you know, all right, what do we need to fix? We need to fix communication, and communication can be, you know, especially in the business world. That is the Ironman which you've run five impressive, by the way but like, that is the Ironman. And when we're developing a training or when we're developing some kind of learning opportunity, it seems to me that we're always thinking about the top of the mountain and we're not thinking about the steps that it takes to get to the top of the mountain. So let me ask you this question All of us have these large ambitions, these large goals.

Jay Johnson:

How are you able to essentially keep yourself focused on the daily habits when you're looking up at the top of the mountain? It's got to be something that everybody, when we experience it, we look at our goals and just like, oh my gosh, it's so far off, retirement is so far off, communication is so far off. How have you personally been able to kind of keep yourself in that present moment, to be focused on those smaller things that are going to make a long-term impact?

Jon Sabes:

Yeah, I think a couple of things to contribute there. First of all, I'm not as disciplined as I might look. I don't want to. I have all the failings that probably every other listener has out there as well. So don't feel like you know, you need to have some sort of super self-discipline to accomplish these things. You know you mentioned Ironman and I have done five Ironman triathlon events and I've always was amazed by what we call the midnight finishers. You have to finish Ironman by midnight and otherwise they cut off. They cut the finish off, and I was always amazed by these bodies that would finish in Ironman, where you just would look at them like how could you possibly? You know you did, they just don't look like they could do it.

Jon Sabes:

So my point, I guess, with this is this is you can accomplish so much more than you think you can, and so how do you get yourself in that rhythm and that's what we're talking about, sort of daily rhythm. So one of the things that I certainly have relied on over the course of my career has been journaling, and specifically a type of journaling, prompt journaling. I developed this prompt journaling after I listened to Tim Ferriss many, many years ago talking about the five-minute journal. I went to buy that journal. It was about an inch and a half thick and, you know, an eight and a half by 11. I traveled, you know, three days a week, and so I developed this little sort of a succinct, little prompt journal that would sit in my breast pocket. It would travel with me all the time. It had 30 entries a month's worth, and so I really do believe in this idea of prompt journaling, of journaling daily thoughts, and what do you keep your mind attuned to? Because that's what you're going to attract in your life, and so you need to keep that constantly. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I write. Well, I want to swim, run, lift and I want to do this, this and this, and then I go the next day. I'm like, ah, shit, I didn't get any of those, but that's okay. I got another chance to do it and it's okay. So I'll say this, which is, I would really encourage folks to do some form of prompt journaling. It's not, it's a different type of journaling and it really, really it's my secret life hack.

Jon Sabes:

The other thing is set your environment up for so that the default behavior becomes a little bit easier, and by that you know again, simple example I want to live healthier, I want to eat better. Well, if your pantry is full of salty, sugary foods, you really can't fault yourself from getting in there and gorging yourself out and watching that you're binging some Netflix and this. I mean come on. So so you got to set that environment up so that default is just a little bit easier. And that really goes to the workplace too.

Jon Sabes:

I know a lot of folks are listening in the workplace. I mean, you know, get rid of the candy in the in the fricking shop, you know. And you know, get rid of the sodas, you know. I mean you can't blame anyone for doing these things. So so it's just again. So two things, which is that daily habit and then setting up your environment. So the default the healthier, the better choice, whatever that choice is is easier. Make it easier for yourself, because we all have feelings in our own self-discipline and we need a little help.

Jay Johnson:

I love that you bring that up because I'll be honest with you. So I just recently had some friends, you know from longtime friends. They came and visited me here and we had a nice, you know kind of guys weekend together and they brought chips and they brought you know all kinds of goodies and when they left I'm like y'all have to take these with you. And they're like we brought, we brought them, like no, you you've got to take these with you because if you leave them here I'm going to eat them. I don't buy that literally because I know that it's 10 o'clock at night. I'm hungry. Oh, there's this bag of corn chips just sitting right there. I'm just going to, you know, I'll have a couple. Yeah, right, so I want to get into this environmental design a little bit more.

Jay Johnson:

But before I do that, so the prompt journaling when you're practicing this, is it more of like? I'm just going to let my mind? You know you've got a prompt. Whatever those prompts are, could you give an example of what maybe some of the prompts might look like? And then do you just let yourself free flow? Do you have an intentionality of like? I'm going to look back at this six months from now. What does that experience look like for you, Jon?

Jon Sabes:

Yeah, you know it's very simple, you know it's and it's short. I mean it's just it's a tiny little booklet and you know the daily things. I just, you know there's a couple of reminders in the morning whether I do these things or not. It's not all that. I'm make my bed, drink some water, get 10 reps in, like those are little check marks I could make. I mean, I love this story.

Jon Sabes:

If you can't make your bed, if you and this is all about self-care and your own place of of of, really I'll call worship you. Where you live is where you practice your life. So self-care is the first step in caring for others. If your place is in shambles, then how can you expect others to help others? And so I really, you know, I walk the walk, I talk the talk, you know, and I really will come down hard on people who I can sniff it out pretty quick if they're not.

Jon Sabes:

So what's my top three things for the day? Just list three things real quick, what I want to do today. That could be really simple. It could be anything you want. You know what are my goals for that today would be great if today I'm grateful for today, I affirm myself that what I'm going to be a great father. I'm going to be a great leader. I'm going to, I'm going to kill it at this client event. I'm going to. I'm going to really impart value to the people I'm training. Whatever that is, affirm something you want to self-affirm before you do what it is you do. And then and then, really it's a day of reflection, which is you can marvel every day at something. I was marveled by what, and today could have been better. If right, there's all we always could have been. You don't have to beat yourself up, but I could have said that you've learned from today, or yeah?

Jon Sabes:

yeah, I could have you know. So it's just a reminder. So it was very simple. And then there's some little remind me notes go to the store, pick up my mulch, plant my perennials, whatever it is, you know, and then at the end of 30 days there's a 30 day reflection and there's some quotes and there's the preamble for the constitution and and there's instructions. So you know it's very simple, you know you. Just really, you know it's bite size, there's only a little place to write. So you can't ramble on and on, although some people my friends who have used these start scribbling all over the thing.

Jon Sabes:

It's your self coach, you know I. I know we've we talked about having coaches and being coaches and a lot of us are coaches, but this is my self-coach. So when I look at that, I'm like, oh, there, he is telling me to do this, yelling me, you know. I know I perform better when my coach is yelling at me. I know I. When I look at that little, I'm like, oh, yeah, I should have done this, I could have done that better. That's just just self-coaching yourself to what I like to say. Keep your mind attuned to that which you want to bring into your life, because if you don't do that, others are tuning your mind to what they want, and so you either focus your mind and your actions toward your life, or you will be impacted and you will be moved by others.

Jay Johnson:

So now you've turned this into the Pursuit of Happiness prompt journal, which I did receive a copy and thank you for that and it's something that I have started to do and we'll put the link to that in the show notes. So if you are interested in the Pursuit of Happiness prompt journal, that's definitely something to kind of elevate your daily habits which leads to that long-term success. Now one of the things that I want to chat about is this environmental design. Now, you've led teams, you've helped them and as a visionary and as an entrepreneur, I know sometimes and I see this a lot in entrepreneurship, so I actually teach entrepreneurship.

Jay Johnson:

I've spoken at a number of entrepreneurship conferences about behaviors and one of the big challenges seems to be that a lot of times the founder, the creator, the owner, ends up having this like large, expansive, beautiful vision, and in some cases it's very, it can be very difficult or I've at least seen it be very, very difficult for them to have, um, to really kind of get, I guess, the team to align to, to really align and I'm not saying a little align right, like yeah, of course, oh, wow, this is a great idea, yeah, this is awesome, but to not necessarily get to that depth. So, when you're talking about environmental design and we're thinking about leading a team that maybe is on the same page maybe they're not fully on the same page what are some of the ways in which case you've used environmental design to maybe elevate your team and to elevate their ability to essentially accomplish the mission, to elevate their ability to essentially accomplish the mission?

Jon Sabes:

Great question. And I've had instances where, you know, the team was absolutely, you know, we were locked, and then I've had, I've had instances where the team fell away and, you know, convinced the board I should be fired. It's like what you know, like you know, um, and it's a very interesting question, I, I guess I would say, you know, from one of the ways in which I believe I did it is, you know, and it is sort of, as you mentioned, in pursuit of happiness, prompt journal, we all want to be happy in life. We, every single person, wants to be happy in life. It is just, it is, as Benjamin Franklin said, the thing we are all in pursuit of, and so it's sort of like foundational to our country and the creation of America and creating this ability, these inalienable rights to pursue happiness, and so recognizing that everyone wants to be happy, recognizing everyone wants to succeed, I think where I've succeeded the most is when I've created an environment that speaks to that and creates an environment where I actually teach it, where I actually communicate.

Jon Sabes:

What are those principles upon which happiness is built and how can you, as a member of this team, pursue and seek and achieve your own happiness, and I think that's where, that's where I've succeeded and where I've failed. I've, I don't think I've done that as well. You know so, when, when, when this entrepreneur, who's mercurial and can be very impatient and sees things, and why don't you guys doing this with a sense of urgency? You know, I, I think, I think, if, if, if the team knows you better and and knows that you are really teaching them how to achieve their own goals in life, then then they'll, they'll come along with you a little bit harder than maybe if, if you don't.

Jay Johnson:

And I love that because I think that it's that autonomy and that sort of independence that people feel when they're pursuing maybe some kind of like higher level function or some kind of higher level, something bigger than themselves, something that's creating that legacy. But if it's micromanaged or if it's one of those situations where it's like you must do X, y and Z this way, that's where I often see that going off the rails. You know, from an environmental perspective, one of the things that I've always I've always really enjoyed is bringing into some of the conversation of what would you like to, what do you want out of this? Because you know a lot of people. I think initially a paycheck, well, yeah, of course, but what do you as an individual? The paycheck will run out unless you're investing it and obviously making their. But what is it that you want?

Jay Johnson:

And even you know finding some of those different spaces, or you know kind of innovating ways to bring some of those desires into the workplace. Seemingly for me, at least with the team that I have when they tell me hey, I want to learn this, all right, well, we're going to start doing that. Let's see what that looks like for you, so kind of creating that space for openness. Now and I'm going to ask you this, because I'm going to ask you this as I perceive you as an expert in this space what is happiness to you? How would you define space? What is happiness to you? How would you define it? What does it look like? And I know it might be different for other people, but I'd love to hear kind of your perspective on that.

Jon Sabes:

I mean, I was happy. This is. I'll tell you what it's not. It's not a destination, it's not. It's not hedonic pursuits so hedonic are just sort of self-indulgent, narcissistic behaviors.

Jon Sabes:

Happiness is the journey, it's the experience and it's virtuous. You know, there are virtuous activities that lead to everyone getting more of what they want. It's a place of abundance, it's not a place of scarcity and it's a place of freedom, because, like you said, everyone's definition for happiness is just a little bit different. But I would just say it's the journey that we're on and I would suggest that we're all on that journey, whether we are consciously aware of it or not. And so sometimes and that's why I don't micromanage people I, I, I can sit.

Jon Sabes:

I know you're on a journey to be happy, whether you know it or not. There's another, there's a whole nother story. But I know that you've chosen coffee over tea, acdc over Beethoven, a Ferrari over a Corvette, because these things bring you happiness. You are consistently making choices to bring more happiness into your life. So how can I help you do more of that?

Jon Sabes:

And by doing that, I'm going to give you in the employment context, I'm giving you a paycheck, I'm creating prosperity for you and your family. That is just an overriding requirement, for happiness is to have some level of prosperity. I mean you mentioned as a paycheck. But yeah, I'm providing prosperity and I'm creating an opportunity for you to grow, not only here, but way beyond here. This won't be the last job you ever have, but if I can teach you skills, I can give you life skills, life-changing skills in a place on which you can take for the rest of your life and add value while you're here, then I've done my job and that's how I've gotten the best performance out of my teams, when they know I'm doing that, and sometimes that's kind of radical honesty, radical transparency, but just it is what it is.

Jay Johnson:

It seems to me that there's a lot of wisdom in the concept of the pursuit of happiness at that point in time, rather than the destination of happiness.

Jay Johnson:

So talk to me about this, because I know what some people could be thinking. All right, and I'm going to put this in the context of the Ironman there's no way I would feel happy punishing my body day in, day out to prepare for something like the Ironman triathlon. And I see people in some cases where, whatever their goal is, the goal is what keeps them going, not the daily habits or not the things that's getting them to that. How do you balance that motivation of sort of staying goal focused but also enjoying the journey of sometimes pain, sometimes discomfort, because to grow we got to step outside of our comfort zone. So some people don't look at that and say, well, that pursuit, it's the end game that's going to make me happy. But how do you shift that? How do you balance that? And is there a balance between that sort of pain during the pursuit and the experience of accomplishing or even sometimes failing? What are your thoughts on that, Jon?

Jon Sabes:

gets to any goal, a meaningful goal, they quickly find that it becomes very empty. You know, and so it is the journey. And where there's pain, you know life. Unless you're the exception to the rule and I like to speak to most of us I know there's outliers, but if you're like me, you're going to have lots of challenges in your life. You're going to have some pain in your life. I mean, it's just really difficult to get through life without massive challenges and pain. So that's just part of life and you need to understand that those are opportunities to grow and to persevere.

Jon Sabes:

The road continues beyond this moment, this too will pass, and so, like just understanding, I think Ironman, for me anyways, was just a way to understand that the road's going to continue.

Jon Sabes:

When it felt hard, when it felt I can't keep going, I why could you know? And just but just keep going with one foot in front of the other, and I think, whether it's a 5k or 10k or wherever you're at in your own journey, I think those are terrific opportunities to kind of test that mental resiliency of like this is hard, but I'm just going to keep going and you will get to the end of the 5k. You will get to the end of the 10k, you know. And so when you learn that, it really strengthens you in the rest of your journey, because you're going to face it, whether it's in your professional life, your personal life, if you're like me, all of the above, but that's okay. Again, it's this individual journey we're on and you're well served to test your, your resiliency, and just to keep going. And, and once you achieve the goal, you, you, you keep going, you find a new one yeah, I love that.

Jay Johnson:

So, all right, let's kind of take this into the realm a little bit of the realm of neuroscience and psychology here. Uh, I'm thinking, you know, when you read something like Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow by Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky. We know that the brain has a lot of cognitive shortcuts. We have a number of different ways in which we have created the conditions of bias, and one of those biases is against or I guess it would be more towards instant gratification, and I think a lot of us live our lives in this space of instant gratification, even though it's probably fairly well known now that if I save money today, I'll have way more later on down my life. But that's still a big thing. So I'm going to put this in the context of wealth, prosperity, essentially financial success, because I know that that's one of the areas that you lead and coach in.

Jay Johnson:

So from a, let's just say, a generalized, we know that kids who are able to delay gratification for a number for an extended period of time measure them out over the course of their lives. They are more successful. They are then the person that's going to take the dollar today versus $10 10 weeks from now, and there's all kinds of different algorithmic, behavioral economics behind. You know how big is the reward in the distance, how long is the distance, and so on and so forth. So, without getting into all of that complexity, how can we better prepare ourselves to avoid the concept of instant gratification and impulsiveness? And journaling is obviously one thing that we can do to be satisfied in our daily life and have gratitude for where we're at now. But let's be real. If you tell me I'm going to give you $100 today or I'll give you $200 a year from now, most people are going to want the $100 today, even though the other is a good bet. What are your thoughts?

Jon Sabes:

Is that the marshmallow experiment, the kids? With the marshmallows. That's the class. It's's a great one.

Jay Johnson:

The kids who could delay not taking the marshmallow I'll give you and for anybody that doesn't know is I'll give you one marshmallow right now. Or, if you can wait, you'll get two marshmallows at a significant you know, at a later point in time. And and they've measured everything from uh, in an hour, I'll give you two marshmallows to a day. I'll give you two marshmallows to a day. I'll give you two marshmallows to a week. I'll give you two marshmallows, and the longer the distance, the less likely that they're going to delay the gratification, the larger the reward can impact. How you know how long they're willing to wait.

Jay Johnson:

I'll give you 100 marshmallows three days from now. Okay, well, I'm definitely going to take the hundred three days from now than the one right now. So there's all kinds of permutations on that, and they've done that with different experiments too with money, with investments and things, to see how adults react to it. And the reality is is most of us are wired to take what we can get today. So how do we avoid that, or how do we teach people to avoid that?

Jon Sabes:

Yeah, I think the one way again. I write a lot about this Again. Longevity, financial partners is my latest venture. I'm in this whole longevity space. I've been here for a while.

Jon Sabes:

I think the key is and you've touched on it is thinking greater than self. First of all, I mean you have to think greater than self. If you're not thinking greater than self, then why not? Then why not take the marshmallow, then why not take the hundred bucks, run over to the liquor store and hit it? I mean so you have to expand your scope of sort of, your view of the, the, it meaning it's just not me.

Jon Sabes:

And even even though you may think, well, it kind of still is just me, isn't it? Yes, but there are, when you take, call it, negative steps, you, you're causing pain on others, you're, you're creating what call waves of negativity within within your, within your life, and so so one way, sort of just on a daily basis, is just, just, we'll go back to that virtue versus hedonic behavior. You know, opt for the virtuous choice because it's going to, it's going to create positive ripples around you. But at the end of the day, right, it's this longevity, how long we are on this planet, is the most finite asset we have. And when we are 70, and when we are 80, and, god willing, when we're 90, or even 100, right, that's, I just covered 30, 40 plus years of life.

Jon Sabes:

And and you really want to think of your older self, you know, think of what you could do today, cause you're going to be that older self Okay, god, you're, you're going to be some version of that and when you're on your deathbed, you want to be able to look back and say my life has been a dream and you really, you know, and that's a, that's where, where you want to be.

Jon Sabes:

And so think about, maybe, that, even if it's just you, your older self, I like to phrase it what would you tell your younger self to do today? You know so that when you met your 80 or 90 year old self, he or she gives you a big hug and goes man, thanks for doing that, because it made a difference over here. You know, and you will be reliant on others, you will have less energy, you will be frail, and so think about even yourself and think about how you'll impact others in that, in, in, in that phase of life, and maybe that will make those healthier, better choices a little bit more, less painful, and because you can, you can see. It's just about you now and how you're going to feel and how the people you love are going to feel about you.

Jay Johnson:

Well, I think that really I mean that lands for me and resonates right Most organizations. One of the things that they want to do is hey, this is how your behavior contributes to the overall good. You know whether that's your mission, vision, values, or you know how your? You know whether that's your mission, vision, values, or you know how your. You know work on a daily basis ends up impacting the end consumer. So this is something that we teach in organizational development too is your behaviors, at that sort of micro level, end up having a macro effect that's much larger than what it is.

Jay Johnson:

So, keeping that in mind can kind of say hey, you know, even though I'm just pushing this button, by pushing this button, that's actually saving somebody's life at the other end of this. You know production line or whatever else that is. So that really lands and that makes a lot of sense, as we're trying to. You know what are some of the big challenges that you've experienced in helping people see that long term, like what are some of the blocks or barriers that maybe have come up as a resistance point to? Yeah, Jon, I mean that all makes sense, but I got to watch out for number one, because I see a lot of watching out for number one nowadays, especially with workforce engagements and everything else. So how, what are some of those barriers and what have you done to maybe overcome those amongst your teams?

Jon Sabes:

That's a big challenge, um, and and it's that's a really hard thing to get people to look past. Uh, looking out for themselves, only themselves. Um Gosh, I don't know that I have a solve for you right here on this podcast, but I guess you know it's really. It's look, when you take care of yourself, you're even I'll go back to this when you take care of yourself, when you, when you do self-care versus self-harm, when you work really hard at your job and do it really well, even though it's just for you, because you want to get that job, you want to get that promotion, you're, you're contributing to the organization in a phenomenal sort of way. So, as long as you're not doing it, I would say with negativity, and you're beating. You know you're doing things. I'll use this hedonic sort of you know analogy in you know you're backstabbing, it's fine, I'm fine with someone throwing it down and working their ass off and and and being like yeah, I'm getting that job, sorry. So you know like I hate that as an entrepreneur, I hate organizations who you know will say you know, he's working too hard, right, he's making me look bad, like. That to me, is just like oh my God, that sort of organization is the one I'm just like. So so I think I think it's OK, you know, to to be.

Jon Sabes:

It's about me, it's all about me, it's about my prosperity, but I'd also say it's about my health. It's about my mental health and it's about the mental health of those that I'm around. So it's not OK to do that and create harm. You know or not. You know, click a wire or something that causes some product to have a malfunction, and you know. So it's within that context. But I say, go for it, man, just go, go for it. It is about you, you know. But you can do that in a way that is creating positive positivity around everything you do. So that's. I don't think those two things need to be, you know, at odds. I think people misunderstand that because they get in these organizations Well, he's working too hard and he's competing too hard. We're like, well, that's kind of what it's about, you know, at the end of the day, well, and I like that.

Jay Johnson:

And I think what I'm hearing inside of that message is do it for you, but also be a decent human while you're doing it, it's no harm. But at the same time, sort of like when I see selfishness or I see a lot of this sort of like I'm just in it for me type thing I think it's because of some of that, I really don't care about what impact I'm having on everybody else around me. So if I'm going to draw that insight out of you, it's more of a balance. It's like, yeah, do it for you, but recognize that by doing it for you, you're also should be contributing to everybody else around you, and I think that goes to your abundance mentality thought.

Jon Sabes:

Yeah, if you're doing, look, no one likes a dirty player on us. You know, use a sport analogy no one, no one, likes that dirty player on the team, right? But everyone loves a Michael Jordan, you know they, even though he's so hard to deal with. And if he's a, if you're a high performer, I mean you just got to acknowledge performance, you know, and but but don't be dirty about it, don't be mean. There's no reason to be mean. Being mean is, is not a good thing, you know. Don't, don't allow your mind to to go there.

Jay Johnson:

So, Jon, I would ask this if, if, in the concept of scarcity and abundance, when we start to think about it, I think most people want to be in that mindset of abundance, but then all of a sudden we start to get that tinge of but if Jon wins, then that means I'm going to lose. Or if you get this promotion and I'm not going to get this promotion, how do you help coach people sort of away from that perspective?

Jon Sabes:

Yeah, that's again, that's a tough one. I mean you just have to recognize that we live in just an incredible abundant world. I mean, if you're in the United States and you're working here or North America, I mean you have so much abundance. It is ridiculous, okay, you have so much opportunity. It is ridiculous.

Jon Sabes:

And so I would say, if you feeling that way, that's more about you. You know, if that person got the promotion, I mean let's hopefully they they really did deserve it because they were the Michael Jordan. It was clear they there was the law of contrast. They were the ones who did it. They sacrificed their weekends or this or that. They gave it all. So I mean you just got to understand that.

Jon Sabes:

You know and resolve that if you want more, if you want that, you're going to have to give more. You know life's a series of trade-offs and maybe you want it but you're not willing to do what it takes to get it. Or maybe you're just creating yourself up for the next opportunity. Maybe that wasn't the right thing. So so again, this goes back to the road always continues. This is not probably going to be the last job you ever have. So you have these opportunities to learn, to set yourself up for success.

Jon Sabes:

And and I just, I'm a big, you know, you know work like hell. You know, just, you gotta give it and I don't care what job you're doing. There is so much opportunity and creativity. And to you know, I like to say, it's just, you know, the, the, the, the. The cleanliness of your office reflects in the in, in the mind of your customer. I mean, you know, just clean the office, just do it, not because anyone asked you, just do it because it looks better. You know, I mean, so there's just so much to do and and I guess it's it's. Maybe people don't want to hear that, but that's what, that's what the real world takes.

Jay Johnson:

No, I love that Cause. I think it's that shift into a growth mindset rather than a fixed mindset. Right, it's hey, if I didn't get this, what could I have done differently? What can I learn from this experience? How will I get it the next time that this comes around and really kind of thinking about what are my next steps? Because, you're right, I've had the fortunate privilege to travel to about 39 different countries and when you talk about opportunities, especially in North America, they are abundant. There's definitely opportunities no one's stuck where they're at but it does require a growth mindset to try to see those opportunities or see how I could fit in the future, even if I'm not there right at this moment. Jon, this has been a really insightful conversation. If our audience wanted to get in touch with you and hear more about the things that you're doing, or into some of the different products, how would they reach out to?

Jon Sabes:

you? Sure, jay, it's Jon, Jon. I'm on all the social media platforms. You can engage with me there. My book is healthy, wealthy longevity talks about health and longevity and what does aging look like, and it also talks about prosperity and being an entrepreneur and working and then self-mastery. So if these things you know, you want to learn more, I highly encourage you to pick up the book it's on Amazon and engage with me, however. However, the prompt journals are on my website and um love to come back, jay. Do it for 30, 60 days. Let's see. Let's see how it worked.

Jay Johnson:

I love it. So I uh, I will definitely be taking that up and uh can committing to that. So I'm making that commitment right here, right now, on the Talent Forge, Jon, and we'll see where we land. But I just want to say thank you, because it's always refreshing to have a conversation with somebody that has that sort of growth mentality, that sort of forward thinking where are we going to land and what are we going to learn along the way? Because I think in a lot of cases we become so destination focused that we forget about all of the incredible experience and learning opportunities through the pursuit of whatever it is the pursuit of goals, pursuit of happiness or pursuit of the Ironman Wow, it's still impressive to me. So I just want to say thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective and giving us some insights into that space.

Jon Sabes:

Thanks, jay, great to be here. Love the podcast, appreciate you.

Jay Johnson:

Thank you and thank you, audience, for tuning into this episode of the Talent Forge, where together we're shaping the future of training and development.

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Jay Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements

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