The Talent Forge: Shaping Workforce Behaviors with Jay Johnson

How to Stop Letting Emotions Run Your Day and Start Using Them to Lead with Dr. Greg Stewart

• Jay Johnson

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What if anger, fear, and stress weren’t problems to suppress but power you could steer? We sit down with Dr. Greg Stewart—author, counselor, coach, and former senior pastor—to unpack a practical roadmap for turning raw emotion into leadership leverage. Greg connects four growth levers that drive real performance: IQ for capacity, EQ for adaptability, personality as our default approach, and purpose as the deeper engine that keeps us steady when pressure spikes.

Greg’s “house of the heart” metaphor makes self-mastery simple without being simplistic. When your reaction is bigger than the moment, he shows how to step inside and find the source: a false belief, a hit to identity, or a past experience that’s echoing too loudly. From there, he teaches how to separate the emotional goal you want—respect, clarity, safety—from the behavior you’re using to get it, then choose actions that are rational, healthy, wise, and right. The result is calmer conflict, faster trust, and cleaner decisions.

If you’re ready to swap reactivity for intentional influence—and help your team do the same—this conversation will give you tools you can use in your next one-on-one, standup, or board meeting.

Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge, where together we are shaping workforce behaviors. Today I am joined by guest Dr. Greg Stewart, who is a multiple-time author, coach, consultant, counselor, and somebody who is no stranger to behavior. So welcome to the show, Dr. Greg.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, the pleasure of the course, all mine, Jay. Thank you for having me, sir.

SPEAKER_01:

So we have learned that uh we shared some geographical roots here. And uh, but I wanted to talk to you about your stories. It's such an interesting one. You've got uh theology, you've got counseling, you've got organization. Tell us, how did you get to this place?

SPEAKER_00:

All right. So it's gonna start off super early, but don't worry, it's gonna go fast. So uh I grew up not too far from you in uh Schoolcraft, Michigan, Portage, Michigan. And uh so go blue. Oh, sorry, I had to say that. So when I was a kid, like a lot of us went to church as kids, and so I did too. And that's when I, you know, believed in Jesus uh when I was a kid, but my parents could go to church, which meant I could go to church, and then I did those awesome hardy, hardy teen years, and then suffered the consequences from those years and then you know recommitted my life to Christ. So when I did that, I spent a summer in South America on a missions trip and I went to a Bible institute and I felt called into the ministry. So back in the 90s, way, way back in the 90s, it's they started the adult and continuing ed programs for all of us who had like 160 credit hours but no degree. And the uh degree that they offered at the time in the 90s was, you know, the one night a week for a year and you get your degree is uh was in organizational leadership, right? So got it and you know, wanted to get my bachelor's degree and it was good material, but I wanted to get to seminary, which is I got a mat, started my master of divinity, which is the Greek Hebrew theology. But major moment number two, I guess, would be after being called the ministry was um my first semester in seminary, I took philosophy of counseling. And I was like, oh my gosh, this material is phenomenal. Like I can use this in ministry for people, but then also realizing I how many issues I had was coming to the surface real quick, too, right? That was a joke, right? So then I got my MDiv in three years, and then in the year 2000, I got ordained, and but I mapped out a dual master's. So I got my MDiv in three years, and then mapped out another master's in counseling. And between those two degrees in the year 2000, like there's a perfect storm. So one is I was on vacation, I came across the book Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman. I was like, this is interesting. So oh my gosh, uh, it was life-changing. So then, secondly, is I started teaching um from uh as an adjunct professor, just to earn some extra money for my alma lauder and all the organizational leadership courses I took in undergrad and then fell in love with leadership. But number three is I was underneath uh a pastor and a great guy, very moral and ethical, but he had some emotional stuff that was going on like from childhood, and it just we had a kind of a falling out. So they asked him to leave, I became the senior pastor. So the church I became a Christian as a kid, I actually landed back at, I was a pastor there at that same church for 15 years. So it was definitely an honoring experience. So I got my MA counseling, and then so at the time I was an adjunct professor, I was a pastor, I was a clinical counselor, and then at when I became the senior pastor, I got my PhD in counselor education supervision, but I did my dissertation on the relationship of emotional intelligence with job satisfaction, organizational commitment. And after that, I started working with um, you know, uh there's a medical device company, head code in Kalmazou, a very powerful one. And that's where I had the VP of HR of the largest division of Tammy Church, and he brought me in to start doing coaching and consulting. So that's where I cut my organizational development coaching teeth on. So after 15 years in the church, we moved to Texas in 2012. And then for three years, I worked for an assessments company where we benchmarked top performers and we did leadership 360s and I traveled all over the country. Absolutely loved it, doing strategic seminars for senior leadership teams and then coaching each of the members of the senior leadership teams in uh developing the individual development plans in personality and um EI. Loved it, but the company got bought out, right? And 80% of us got laid off. So, Jay, if you've never been laid off, it's awesome. You gotta try it, right? So then I actually switched over to and became a director at a behavioral health hospital. So I've had a plethora of things, but that's how it kind of developed, where I was, you know, counseling and then consulting and coaching. So right now I see about 40 clients a week in a mixture of yeah, yeah, 40, 40 clients a week, and I absolutely love it. And work with them on everything from the I call it negative 10 to positive 10, where negative 10 to zero is like counseling, where there's a lot of um emotions are getting in the way, but then zero to positive 10 is coaching where I'm helping them become as effective and powerful as they can be. So that's in a nutshell, that's what's going on.

SPEAKER_01:

That's that's such an incredible story, and I love the different sort of like areas because as a behavioral scientist, one of the things I know is I started with just the study of communication as the behavior, and that wasn't enough. So then I studied psychology and that wasn't enough. And then I started studying neuroscience, and it was just like all of these different factors. But across my experience, one of the things that has really helped me was seeing people in different environments, you know, their work environments. Uh I one of the my favorite things, you might you might really appreciate this. When I travel, I love going to grocery stores and just actually seeing like how things are set up because you can learn a lot about behavior just from environment and context. So let me ask you this. Because this I think is kind of an interesting, an interesting question. Between counseling, between uh spirituality, and between organizations, what have you learned that really kind of ties maybe those three different entities together? Or are there particular practices that really work well across all three of those different dynamics?

SPEAKER_00:

So I would say that the I I call them the same exact like um techniques um and philosophy and psychology is across the board, but it's how you package it. So I'm actually going to go to book number three. So my first book um was on iCube, where I unlock the uh industry behind your negative emotions. That's like the an individual counseling one. And then because I do so much marriage counseling, the second book was iCube for Couples, um, facing our negative emotions to build intimacy. But my third book was ICube for Leaders, where the first two is about the negative emotions and us like going deep and figuring our hearts out. But the third book has a different take on negative emotions where it's unleashed the rage of your negative emotions against the obstacles of becoming more. So I'm gonna start there because and then go backwards. So in my first chapter of that book, I'm becoming more, that's where I do the psycho babble, like you know, our mental models that we have to become more, and like, you know, why do we keep hitting this news button seven times kind of thing, just lay the groundwork. But in chapter two, I talk about the becoming more quotient, right? So there's this uh four, four boxes where I I've always told people that I coach or work with, I said, look, if you can find a book, a proverb, a quote, an article on leadership that doesn't fit into one of these four, I'll buy you lunch, right? Well, I still have that money kind of thing, right? So, real quick, it's it's four areas. So it's IQ, which is we're born with our IQ, right? But the question is, what how how does one human being influence another human being, right? Well, obviously, if somebody with a high IQ, they're gonna be influential, right? But we're born with an IQ, but what we can do is we maximize the goal is to maximize our IQ through two things informal and formal education, right? So even if it's informal, I think there's PhDs walking around all over the place because they're expert in their fields, so be constant learns, but secondly, is learning critical thinking skills, right? Stuff like yeah, like uh problem solving skills, like uh whether it be to understand biases as opposed to like Bloom's taxonomy, and there's just a number of different ways. So to learn critical thinking skills. Number two is the interplay between personality and emotional intelligence, so IQ, EQ, and then personality. So I make a statement in the book where I do not know how we can have a discussion about leadership without discussing our personality, because it's our approach where a strength taken too far becomes a weakness, right? So when I worked at the residential treatment center with teenage girls, they used to say, Dr. Greg, you're so extra. And I thought it was a compliment, right? But they didn't mean it as a compliment, right? So it's a strength taken too far. Like I can become too domineering, too impulsive, too critical, or whatever. And when it comes to leadership, the damage that happens when you're either leading someone or or following somebody is really much of it isn't really uh uh personality taken too far. So I say personality ran through the machine of EI equals your personal uh leadership effectiveness. So that the interplay of there. But number four is spiritual development and destiny. Okay, so if you give me permission, I'm just gonna um, you know, bring in my theology. So uh a lot of us at least know the story, like in the Bible, that you know, God created everything, Genesis, you know, chapters one and two, everything was great. In Genesis three, we talk about the fall, right, where Adam and Eve sinned and everything went to hell. But then Genesis four through today is both God and man responding to what happened in Genesis three. In Genesis four, though, it says that these descendants started becoming shepherds and herdsmen, these descendants started becoming making for me tools, and then these descendants started making musical instruments. When I saw the musical instruments, they're like, that's interesting. So here's my premise for helping people develop their mission statement, right? So let me pause there and say that for all the books, for everybody, everything we do, Jay, is trying to achieve an emotional goal. I want to feel something like the micro. If I'm thirsty, I want to take a drink of my soda, um, or if I'm tired and sleep, but then we're all in pursuit of our macro emotional goals, which are you know, quality of life as determined by standard of living, living our values, and fulfilling destiny calling and purpose. And I don't care if you're religious or not, every human being wants to feel that. They want to feel like they're like a legacy or feel like they're they have a high quality of life or heavier. So in the spiritual development destiny, Genesis 4, it's I say that that every job ever, every technological advancement ever is either trying to solve a human problem or enhance the human experience. So every company begins with an entrepreneur, right? Uh caveman walks out and says, Well, this sucks and creates the wheel, right? So Howard Schultz, Starbucks, like something's missing here. I want to create an experience. Matter of fact, when I wrote my book, I was on a cruise with my wife, and I note that in the book, it's cruises are not solving human problems or enhancing human experience, which is the musical instruments. So when I help people develop their mission statement, it's deeper in the sense of they look at the world, and I first begin with what of all the problems in the world, which one drives you insane? Like, like you can't stand it. And there's a bunch of problems, but it's that one. And whatever it is, here's the key that every single time somebody develops their mission statement, it comes from their personal experiences. Yep. That's right. So that's where we developed the mission statement. So that's how it kind of all ties in together is that there's something deeper, and I cannot tell you how many people have signed up for counseling with me because, like, I loved on the story of I had two doctors, one was a radiologist, one was an anesthesiologist from Houston. They didn't know each other. At the same time, they came to me and said, you know, I make about 300K plus per year. But it's like, is this it? Over and over and over again. So that's what's just missing. I call it the Iron Man core, right? It's that Iron Man, that inexhaustible energy source. That's your purpose and mission. But that energy source was put there to keep that shrapnel from killing the heart, right? That was the whole point of, you know, saw Iron Man. Without that core, the shrapnel is like life's annoyances, it's taxes, it's traffic. And without a purpose, the human soul will I mean just like it will shrivel up, right? So that's where all of it kind of ties in together.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love I love the quadrant approach there. You know, when I think about so for for those playing along at home, if you're if you're not familiar, IQ meaning intelligence quotient, generalized, uh standard, standard intelligence. And the EQ, uh, as you mentioned, Goldman, generally has two different domains. It's the domain of awareness and it's the domain of response. And that is measured against internal versus social. Um, the personality, there's a number of different personality assessments out there, whether it's disk, Myers Briggs, whether it's uh the actual clinical diagnostic in the OPIR or any of the other ones. And then we get to that sort of spiritual, uh, the spiritual legacy purpose. I I love how you've kind of positioned those four things because I do see not only every leadership book, but I mean most trainings or most uh organizational development programs would probably fall into one of those different things. How are we achieving setting mission, goal, purpose, strategy, direction versus how am I showing up each and every day? I want to dig in on the emotional side of things. I I I would be remiss if I didn't spend time with you on emotions, right? Emotions, in in most instances, we look at emotions as generally autonomic, right? They're part of the autonomic nervous system. They pop up in different aspects. Uh, there's external stimuli, there's also internal stimuli, how much rest I've had, how much food I've eaten, how many aspects, right? So we think that we have these emotions. We don't necessarily get to quote control our emotions. I might feel jealous and then regret feeling jealous, and then regret feeling regret, and then feel guilty that I felt jealous. I don't get to control that. What are some of the ways? Because these emotions, as you uh as you so accurately point out, drive a number of, we're gonna call them uh negative consequence behaviors. I don't like to say bad behavior, I don't like to say good behavior. Every behavior has a purpose, it's serving an emotion or it's serving a need. Um, but some have negative consequences, some have positive. Yep, for sure. How do we, how do we better regulate some of those powerful neurotransmission signals that are hitting us that we call emotions, and stop ourselves from putting our foot in our mouth, stopping ourselves from beating ourselves up? Because I think this is a behavior that we see in every leader, in every HR place, every talent development space. How do how do we navigate that?

unknown:

Dr.

SPEAKER_00:

Garrett? Right. All right. So one is that, yeah, it's it's our mental model, right? So our mental model gives an auto response, right? And that's where we say we can't control, we can't control the autoresponse, um, other than a key component of emotional intelligence is impulse control, right? So there's there are techniques that, and I've experienced it where I am about ready to, you know, punch a hole in the wall, but I have to control. So we can't control the energy, but we can control the expression, right? Okay, so one is that um I use this illustration where I say behind us is the house of our heart, right? And we're standing on the front lawn, and before us are all these things and people facing the house of our heart, like that are upsetting us, right? Um, so let's say that Jay calls me a name, right? Which he never would because he's so nice, right? But let's say Jay calls me a name, and I use like I say there's three tenets to emotions. One is that emotion is energy, okay? Think of emotions that so there's good energy, right? Quality of life, but you like you said, there's not bad, but negative energy, and that's simply used to have to solve uh solve problems. Secondly, is to have the right brand or type of emotion. Like when people a lot of people say that I have anxiety, but it's actually stress, like control calm versus no control. And it's huge because when our frontal lobe says I have anxiety, our mental model will respond as if there was something out of our control, but that's not the case. So we have to label it correctly. But then have the right brand or type and the right amount. So a scale of one to ten. So Jay calls me a name on a scale of one to ten, there's two ways to assess it. Like, what's the worst that can happen? Like, what bad happens because Jay calls me a name on a scale one to ten. Well, it's like a point five, right? And nothing, you know, but then it's how much emotional energy do I need to respond to it? Like, Jay, stop it, right? Now that's fine, but here's the issue that on the amount, the issue is that even though it should be a 0.5 or a one, I'm at a six, seven, or eight. And right there is I call it the inflation of emotions. So, which we all have, but we have that's where we have to walk into them. So I say, at that point, so you got to turn around and walk in the house of your heart because like I can't dump a six, seven, or eight of emotional energy on Jay because it's gonna get far worse. I'm not gonna, it's not gonna be emotionally intelligent and I'm not gonna, it'll just damage, right? So I have to stop. I say you gotta put down the microscope and pick up the mirror, right? And this we see this in organizations, we see this in our families everywhere. So when I walk in the house of my heart, I say tenant number three is that all negative emotions exposing something in you, right? It sounds bad, but it's actually very freeing. So I work with every client and leader and say, look, as much as possible, remove all power from the environment. So a quote in my book is nothing bothers me unless it should, right? Because it should, if it should bother me, then you can't do you can't be passive. So in the first room is insecurity, right? Then I say that I do the emotions of insecurity, anxiety, fear, worry, anger, depression. So like anxiety is in the kitchen, right? Fear is crouched in the hallway, worry is looking out the front window, uh, anger is walking around the bedroom, and depression is laying in bed. So the first, the first major reason for the inflation of emotions is simply we believe a lie. As some lie, like, you know, Jay meant it, he hates me, or some people say, like, I'll never get a job. And I cannot tell you how much like um here's the key emotions don't produce themselves, they come from sentences of interpretation of mine, beliefs, ideas, right? Dr.

SPEAKER_01:

Gray, let me ask a question on that. Can the lie then also be something of Jay's right?

SPEAKER_00:

Right's right.

SPEAKER_01:

If I if I call a name, generally, whatever the name is, right? Oh, somebody that sort of just like, you're right. I am if I say this this is a terrible person, and somebody goes, you know what, maybe Jay's right. I am a terrible person.

SPEAKER_00:

Can that also be the lie that we yeah, because you can believe lies about yourself, right? Which I would the first room is in that's why the first room's insecurity. Insecurity is like a like I always tell when I was I worked at a hamburger joint in uh Michigan, and I was 14 years old, and we were all friends there. But Jay, I used to be a super sarcastic teenage guy, but you can see I matured, right? So I teased this girl once. Uh, she was my friend, but I teased her so bad one time I made her cry. And as she's walking away, I remember the moment I yelled out, you wouldn't get so ticked off if it wasn't true. And I pause, like while she's crying, I pause and went, Oh my gosh, Greg. So every time you get upset, defensive, you know, butthers they say or or whatever, it's it's gotta be truth because when I saw people trash talk, if somebody really wants to hurt the feelings of another person, um, outside of your mama jokes, that they they use true statements. Yeah, right, right. Otherwise, it's just like Jay, I'm concerned. We've got to, hey, for everybody, like Jay, I'm concerned about your hair and addiction. And you're like, okay, great, right? If it's not true, so insecurity is something I don't like about myself, but the issue is not that, because we all have that. The issue is I don't want it exposed, and not one exposed where I get defensive, but if it's true, right? So you own it. So the first thing is we could again we have to assess it, is it true or not true? Right? So I'm just saying, like, if it's like I'll never get a job. Well, that's not true. What you could say, you have to replace it. So you have to replace the lives with truth, meaning, look, if I'm honest with myself, I didn't try very hard in high school and college. So what kind of job am I expecting to get? But if I work hard, learn to trade, go back to college, I can, but it's about the truth because that produces the right amount of negative energy to burn, right? So rise is the number one reason. Secondly, is off the room of insecurity is a doorway that goes into the basement. And in the basement is the machine of identity, value, and worth, right? Whenever we say that we're taking things personally, what we're saying is whatever the negative event is, it's impacting our value and worth, and it should not. And when you talk about like uh leaders with Napoleon's disease or insecure leaders, or they got a post up or where the case is and like positional power, that's what it, that's what we're talking about. It's it's impacting their value, their significance, and it shouldn't. And there's a whole process ideal with that. But number three, often the often the basement is the dark, dingy cellar door of trauma. Now, there's big T official trauma, which very few of us have experienced, but almost every single one of us have experienced little T trauma, where a bad experience that just rocks our world. So that could be the carryover effect where I'm reminded, like my mental model goes, oh great, Greg, here we go again, and it scoops up the emotion from the past and dumps it. So those are three major reasons for the inflation. So that's where, yeah, it's an auto-response, man, but we got to walk into those negative emotions because if I'm sitting there just burning all this emotional energy on the microscope on Jay, it's like what I'm saying is the solution to my negative emotions is Jay changing. Well, I'm I'm screwed, right? So no, I I want I need to deal with Jay on the point five or one, but the inflation is my issue. That's where I say in all three books, you've got to walk into that and figure that out because that's your issue, not theirs.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and it it it seems to me, and I love that you brought in the concept of reframing, right? Like, okay, well, this is the lie that I'm telling myself. I need to replace that. With what is the actual truth that I need to be telling myself? Maybe I didn't work as hard. Maybe I think that really kind of goes to the core of ownership, right? Like stepping into our own power and not necessarily being subjected to our own ruminations or our own interpretations, because that can be really dangerous. Am I getting that correct?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, very much so. Yeah. So you have to, it's just a constant process of like a long time ago, Jay, I've already assessed, like, I said, look, my mental model is cuckoo for coca pous. I mean, I'm sold because I don't have all the information in any situation. And the formulas by which I process information, if they're gonna be off. So then I need to be teachable. Like, so going back to leadership, when I work to senior leadership teams, I'd ask the question like who are the worst leaders you've ever been under and who are the best. Invariably, there's a bunch of answers, but there's always two that rose to the top. The first one is they don't listen, right? Which means they're on agenda, like they're or secondly, they're not teachable. So I'm being tea, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01:

I was gonna say the listen to stick with that one for a second, kind of made me think about the walking into the basement in your analogy of not feeling valued, not feeling worth like, oh, I'm not even worth listening to. You're not valuing my opinion. So, like in that regard, I can see a leader who doesn't listen is essentially tapping into that basement level for somebody of saying, Why am I even here? Does it is with that?

SPEAKER_00:

It's it's definitely because why aren't you listening? Because you it could be a pride thing, you're not, you don't care what this person says. Um, but it's really about like it could be about value and worth, or not listening means that I am speaking truth to you, that you that something needs to change here or you need to change, and you're like, you're no, because what is pride? Pride is nope, Jay. I've got all the information I need at all times, and my formulas are spot on, so no, thank you. That's pride, right? So I talk about the Jihari window model when it comes to the blind area. Like again, I learned that as a kid. The blind area that Jay sees something about me that I don't see, freak me out. So I came up with two tech, two things that I add to every single leader's individual development plan. One is the practice of the skill of empathy, restating using synonyms, what people say. And I've got a technique for it, right? Because why? It is about the human experience, right? So when the best leaders, flip it, the best leaders are the ones who listen. Like, man, I was talking to the CEO at the curses party, and I was like, I was the only person in the room. That's where you get like referent power because the CEO cares just on a human basis, but the CEO is like, everybody's got good ideas, right? So number one is just empathy, but secondly, I call it proactive teachability. So I asked the question what is your plan or strategy for eradicating your blind area? Because if you don't see it, right, what's your plan? It can't be reactive teachability. Why? Because everybody's afraid of conflict. I can't wait for Jay to walk into my office and say, Greg, dude, you are blind because we're afraid of conflict. So I'm not gonna wait for that. So every leader, I say either one person a week or two people a week, go out to people and say, Jay, how can I grow? Where do you think I'm blind? And Jay will be nice to me. I'm like, Jay, no, I want like there's 10% in the back of your brain that you would never ever ever tell me I want that for two reasons. One one is you could be believing something about me that I'd like to correct that's not true about me, or you might see something about me that I desperately need to see. So, like, lay it on me. Like, I sacrifice myself, like that's pro-teachability. Every leader needs to, and then think about what pro-active teachability, because every human being, it's like a human thing, everybody kind of sits back and says, Man, I wish my leader would do that. I wish my spouse would do that. Well, I should do that. So every human being should. So when leaders in the org leadership teams do proactive teachability, it changes the culture of the organization. It's powerful.

SPEAKER_01:

You you totally tripped a story in my mind of something that was really meaningful at one point in time. Now, when I was coming up, uh when I was growing up, I'm gonna call it, you know, 15, 20 years ago, as I was doing leadership and everything else like that. I I was a former competitive debater uh in the university. I I'm very competitive in general. Some people would call me extra as well, or maybe overly extroverted, or anything else. Well, when I was in those positions, I would always advocate so passionately, so directly. And I always looked fairly confident in what I was saying because that's how I was trained. I ended up, I ended up at a leadership conference, and it's one of my dear friends. Hopefully he's listening. I'll give him a little credit for it. His name's Justin and uh Justin Woodski, who uh we ended up getting partnered and having to uh share a room during this experience, this retreat. And uh I didn't think anything of it. We go into the retreat, it's awesome, we have a great time. Justin and I stay up laughing and talking and sharing stories, etc. Well, afterwards, I'm like, Justin, this has been really great. He's like, Yeah, Jay, it has. He's like, honestly, I was dreading this. And I was like, what? He's like, Well, I you you're just so different than I thought. You know, I see you as you're presenting or whatever, and you're just domineering and you're you're aggressive in this and that and the other thing. I had never perceived myself as that. I perceived myself as confident and passionate. But then it was something that he had opened up this complete blind spot to me. And I I I am I tell this story, he's heard me tell this story. I'm so grateful for that. Like that was the 10% in the back of somebody's mind that's not coming out. So I really, really appreciate that tactic of no, tell me what you don't want to tell me because that's the only way I'm gonna grow. From that point forward, I really shifted a lot of behaviors because I didn't want to be perceived that way.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And real quick, so so that's why I love EI because, you know, like you said, there's self and others, self-awareness, others awareness, self-management, others management, or relationship management. But the chronological flow is self-awareness first, right? Yeah, like what am I thinking, feeling? What's my current? But I think that the key to EI, the brilliance of EI, the mastery of EI is in the second one, which is others' awareness, which I've relabeled to situational awareness. Yeah. Because the situation is the king, it's the brick wall, it's not moving. True EI is to be able to, which is number three, self-management. So if the situation and I match, like Greg, you be you, but if there is a gap at all, I can't look at the situation, which a lot of foolish leaders do and say, you mold yourself to me. No, I need to be emotionally intelligent and imitate the right approach, like the either extrovert, introvert people, or and so in some situations, some people would look at you and say, Oh gosh, I actually thought Jay was pretty tame. But to other temperaments, they're like, Whoa, that dude is intense because the situation determined about personality, who the person is or the group is, right? So it's so we we read the situation. And we mold ourselves to it. That is EI in a nutshell. And for like number the last one, relationship management, I separate that out because I in my book, I just give a bunch of communication skills that we can use because what's relationship management? It's communication, right? So the actual flow is self-awareness, situational awareness, self-management. But that's what you're talking about is he sees you as this intense guy. Whereas you and I'd be like, oh, I thought I thought Jay was pretty chill, right? Right. It's about perception, right? Based upon the situation.

SPEAKER_01:

So let's make this practical if we can. I'm going to go back to something that you had said earlier because I think this is so powerful, right? And becoming aware that our emotions are driving a number of our behaviors in the workplace or even in personal life, starting to look at some situations. Let's go back to that person that you had brought up. You had said, uh, you know, the person at the office that's so angry they want to put their fist through the wall. Okay. You had mentioned there's a couple of tactics maybe that you could do in that very moment to gain, grab awareness, and to essentially walk ourselves back from that. And I I love the concept of kind of going into the heart and those. In the moment, we know that you know, cortisol, adrenaline, norepinephrine, all of that pumping into the brain. It's not creating the conditions for us to be as rational as we potentially could be. What are some practical, tactical behaviors that we can do instantly to stop ourselves or give ourselves maybe a little bit of that space to make a better behavioral decision?

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Okay. So whether it be I'm observing that person or I am that person, right? So in my first book in chapter one, so when I talked about everything we do is achieving an emotional goal, right? I didn't say that that's great. All the emotional goals are good, but the issue is the path we take to achieve the emotional goal. We have to assess the action, the behavior, the path to achieve the emotional goal, which I use all the way through my books is RHWR, rational, healthy, wise, and right. For instance, if I'm trying to achieve the emotional goal of I'm stressed out, I don't want to be stressed, but I choose the pathway of drinking alcohol every day at five, right? It achieves the emotional goal, but it's not rational, healthy, wise, and right. My point is that a great de-escalator of intensity and conflict is always like always point out and agree with because you can the person's emotional goal. And I say for you, separate the emotional goal because we get angry. Anger is a result of blocked goals. There's a there's an actual physical goal, and then there's an emotional goal, like I'm feeling disrespected. That's an emotional goal. So whether we we observe somebody who's super angry, immediately connect to that person on their emotional goal, right? We often go after the path, like don't do that. But as soon as we attack the action without the validation of the emotional goal, everybody merges the emotional goal with the path. So they see us as blocking the emotional goal as well. But it's like, I'm not gonna be disrespected. See, it's like I right, so immediately start begin with, I want you to be respected, right? I want this goal achieved, so agree with the emotional goal, but then you can see to separate the path, the action, the response from the emotional goal.

SPEAKER_01:

So, from an internal side, is that a practice that maybe like if I'm experiencing this anger, I might say, okay, hey, here's why? And and really kind of just being like, it's okay for me to feel angry. It's not okay for me to put my hands on that wall. The anger that I'm feeling is a result of being blocked. Is this, is this? What else could I do to overcome that barrier? Is that kind of what you mean?

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And so, like every emotion, like they say anger is a secondary emotion, but what that actually means is that, you know, first of all, like insecurity, anxiety, fear, worry, anger. So if you say I'm insecure, I'm anxious, I'm afraid, I'm worried, I'm like, those are underdog emotions. But as soon as you go angry, your focus goes from what I'm feeling to outward again, which means you're blowing it, you're putting all the power in the external. My point is like when I talk about number two is to have the right label or type, like I said, anxiety versus stress. With anger, you got to first like what goals of mine are being blocked? And then secondly, you got to grab that puppy and drag it below the line again and say, because all anger is a result of fear. And it completely disarms us, where we that's like a technique because anger, I'm again focusing on you. It's it's I'm angry at, but if I say, but what goal of mine is being blocked? Back to internal, and what am I afraid of? What's the worst that can happen if Jay keeps calling me that name or whatever it is, right? It's a result of fear. So we have to like bring the power back inside of us and say it's our issue first before we can go out to address it, right? So that's what we're talking about is like number one, is emotional goal from path. And then secondly, it's how do I respond with what's actually happening with the labels of these emotions, especially when it comes to anger? Anger is always a result of fear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's this is such a powerful conversation because you know, whether we're whether we're working in retail, uh real estate, whether we're working in the manufacturing floor, or whether we're working in an executive office, there's going to be those aspects where emotions come into play and they try to hijack whatever our decision-making processes are. It it seems to me one of the things that could be a real big value for people, and help me understand if I'm right here, is maybe learning the nuances between the different emotional labels. So maybe studying the emotion wheel and saying, okay, is this really fear or is this more anxiety, or is this more stress, or is this more excitement, or is this more joy, or and really kind of nuancing because language is limited, but it's all we have. So if we're able to, if we're able to maybe communicate those feelings more effectively, does that help, Dr. Greg?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like there, I have an emotional wheel and there's an emotional chart with hundreds of emotions. And when you're able to, like, especially when you restate somebody, hey, it's not that I that I'm feeling um upset, it's just I'm more despondent. Well, the nuance difference between discouraged and despondent, right? So when you're able to restate, like, yes, it's exactly what I'm feeling. That's one. But let me kind of flip it and I'm gonna kind of you know end with the I cubed process because I put the chapter on I cubed at the end of each book because it's like this little technique summarizes all the psycho babble, if you will. So, real quick, the IQ process is like the Panama Canal. So the first lock has to fill up before the second lock opens, right? So information, interpretation, intensity. So on information, that lock has to fill up before you can go to interpretation. So the rule is that, and I applied this years ago, 25 years ago, I'd say, Greg, it is illegal, I like that word, illegal for me to have any opinion interpretation or any emotion intensity until I have all the information. Right? Because how many times has been like, no, Greg, it's not that, it was this, and suddenly I'm like, oh, one little piece of information. Right. So here, like biases. Now, I always like to say, imagine if that one rule was applied in our culture and society, it is illegal to have any opinion or any emotion until you have all the information. It would change the world, right? So let's say, right, the information fills up. The second one is where we get into critical thinking, which is interpretation. That the rule there is simply like you'd be in negative, neutral, and positive, right? So obviously you're thinking negative about something, but the key thing is on critical thinking, is there any other way of looking at it? And this is where you step out of your emotion. So forget like the nuances, like step out of your emotion. And what I have found over and over again is there are several, like five, six, or seven, I work with clients, like there's could be six statements that are almost like paradoxical, they're like completely opposite, but they all are true and coexist in how to interpret this information. Well, on the one hand, this, on the other hand, that. But all of them stories we tell ourselves and that's oh my gosh, I use that phraseology in my book, right? So so once you lay out all the statements of interpretation, here's what's weird is the emotions, like the intensity, are like almost like a domino effect where they just naturally play out because your emotions will be like go up and down according to the information interpretation. So, like you can either go into the emotions, like when you're being exposed, or use the IQ technique where I'm first gonna get the information and then critically think, step out of myself. What are all the ways to interpret this? And then just naturally comes the amount of emotional energy, and then I can determine how to respond to it. So it kind of flips it on its head. So I always I end the books with that one technique because it's like the summary of all the stuff that came before it.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's a powerful thing. And I also think I really like actually like how you had mentioned Bloom's taxonomy. So for any of our trainers that are listening to us, they're gonna know exactly what that is. But it does kind of remind me of that of that first level of learning is just like, can I recall it? Can I understand it? Can I, and then I can move to the like, okay, can I interpret it? Can I evaluate it? And then can I apply it? And can I actually create with it or design with it? So uh it seems to me that it it follows almost that natural uh learning process. I get the information once I have it, I can then evaluate it. Once I can evaluate it, then I can actually apply whatever the response uh appropriate. I'm gonna say appropriate response is. You know, going then because somebody finished off the orange juice is probably not the appropriate level of response where, you know, maybe a maybe a short conversation could resolve it.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And then in my checker on critical thinking, so on Bloom's Techonomy, like obviously the bottom three levels are all about the training, like uh inform our knowledge, comprehension, application. So I call it training by rhetorical question, right? Do you think people like it when you say hi to them? Right. So kind of thing, but the top three levels is where I get into the book, where it's analysis, synthesis, evaluation, and like how can we take those three topics to like with senior leadership teams to break down all of your business assumptions and strategies and break everything down, saying there is a there is a a way to break all this down so I can that's the interpretation. So, yes, there's knowledge comprehension application, but let's let's step back and say, what are we all dealing with here on this topic? Because again, instead of the micro, we have to look more macro and break it all down theoretically, then synthesis, bring it all back together. So I even tap into the upper three levels when it comes to even start strategy planning. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

This has been an incredible conversation, Dr. Greg. And I want to say thank you for that. But before I do, if our audience wanted to get in touch with you, how would they reach out to you?

SPEAKER_00:

So if you can see my name on the screen, Dr. Greg Stewart, just takeout the period.com. All right, this is D R G R E G S E W R T dot com. That's right, I like that, right? So drgregstewart.com and I have everything there.

SPEAKER_01:

That's beautiful. So I will make sure that we get that into the show notes. But thank you, uh, Dr. Greg, for taking the time. Yeah, no, it's been an incredible conversation. I love being able to dig in with fellow behavioral scientists, enthusiasts, counselors, psychologists on some of these major issues. That you're right. What if the world actually abided by the law of I'm not allowed, you know, it's illegal for me to form an opinion until I go through this process. It would be a better world. So I hope you continue to keep making a better world. And just thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience and wisdom with our audience here today.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Bless you, Jay. Thank you. I love the conversation, man.

SPEAKER_01:

And thank you, audience, for tuning into this episode of the Talent Forge. We're together, we're shaping workforce behaviors.

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Jay Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements

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