The Talent Forge: Shaping Workforce Behaviors with Jay Johnson

Rethinking Power: Where Quiet Voices Change Teams with Greg Weinger

• Jay Johnson

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Loud doesn’t equal leader. Greg Weinger joins us to unpack why quiet professionals can become some of the most effective leaders in the room—and how to get there without faking extroversion or burning out. We dig into the real difference between introversion and shyness, the energy mechanics that shape how people think and speak in groups, and the small, repeatable steps that turn hesitation into confident presence.

Greg shares the pivot from “performing extrovert” to authentic leadership, including the meeting moves that keep ideas from getting lost when the conversation sprints ahead. You’ll hear practical ways to influence beyond the moment—smart follow-ups, written clarity, and narrating your thought process so conclusions land with weight. For managers and HR leaders, we outline simple design changes that elevate team decisions: sending agendas early, building quiet think time, using temperature checks instead of hot-seat prompts, and inviting multiple channels of contribution so every brain gets heard.

We also talk about nerves and purpose. If your heart races before a presentation, you’re not broken; your body is priming to perform. Greg reframes anxiety as activation and pairs it with a purpose-first mindset that makes discomfort worth it. Along the way, we explore how culture shapes what gets rewarded, why deep listening is a competitive advantage, and how to champion quiet talent without forcing them into a loud mold. If you’ve ever thought “I’m not a leader because I’m not the loudest,” this conversation gives you tools, language, and proof that your path is not only possible—it’s powerful.

Enjoy the episode, share it with a colleague who needs the nudge, and if it resonated, subscribe and leave a quick review so more quiet leaders can find it.

Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com

Jay Johnson:

Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge, where together we're shaping workforce behaviors. Today I am joined by special guest Greg Weiner, who is an expert in introversion and leadership. It's a topic that we haven't necessarily explored all that much on the Talent Forge, but it is something that we need to take a look at and dive deep. So welcome to the show, Greg.

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, great to be here, Jay. Thanks.

Jay Johnson:

Greg, talk to us about how did you get into this space of introversion leadership? What is your story and how did you land here?

Greg Weinger:

Well, I was kind of born into it, um, as I came to find out. You know, I'm born an introvert, and as I've learned, that's something that you're you're kind of hardwired for. Um and I kind of came about it, kind of resisting it for most of my career. Um, I am in leadership, I'm in tech. Uh, you know, I started out programming computers, you know, it was kind of a you know, something that was suited to my personality or, you know, originally, but I, you know, I just wanted to have more of an impact. And so I realized, okay, you know, I really want to do this leadership thing. And so I started talking to managers and I found I wasn't encouraged. And I was like, okay, well, you know, I was kind of a setback. And I'm high achiever, I was high school valedictorian, went to big name school and all this stuff. But, you know, I my whole focus was like, you know, if you can study hard enough, then you can you can do it. And so I was like, I realized, okay, so the exam is being an extrovert now to, you know, as a leader, like a big, loud, outgoing leader who's kind of taking up all the space in the room. And it's like, oh, I can study for this, I can nail this. And so I did that, you know, and I was really, you know, trying to fit that bill for a long time. But what happened is, you know, that really wasn't authentic for me. And I gradually developed my own ways of leadership, my kind of my own personal brand of that. And, you know, I was going at this a long time. I was really tested when I was and became a senior leader, uh, executive team, reporting to CEOs, working with, you know, starting out on the technical side. Now I'm working with sales leaders and marketing leaders and everyone, you know, there's bigger and bigger personality. And, you know, these in these rooms, the, you know, it's it's almost like a competition to eat up all the oxygen in the room. And so that's it's hard to, it was that was super challenging for me. But doing personal work and realizing I I I finally deeply understood where what how I was, where I was coming from, in part by finding some some really good books on the subject, um, which I could recommend. And, you know, I came out on the other side with my own toolkit, my, and I really embracing my style. And I realized I just wanted to, you know, amplify the message, amplify the material that's already out there so that more people who are like me, who are, you know, trying so hard for so long to be extroverts, be someone who they're not, to embrace their strengths and and be themselves.

Jay Johnson:

Okay. Greg, I love this because I cannot tell you how many people who would be probably classified in the introversion, if not self-diagnosed introversion, if not taken the tests and learned of their introversion that have told me I'm not a leader. And that was literally based on the idea of taking up the space in a room, being the first to speak, being the most outgoing, etc., and watching them develop and turn into some of the most effective leaders I've ever seen. And I have two business partners, uh, both vice presidents who are both introverted, who are two of the best leaders I've I've ever seen. I'm the person that takes up the oxygen in a room. We'll get to my story in a minute. But with that being said, I want to I want to zone in on something that you mentioned. You said that there was a resistance, like there was this resistance that you didn't want to be the introvert or you didn't want to uh align with that originally. Can you talk to me a little bit about that? Because I think that's something that a lot of people feel like, oh, I I can't be an introvert. And they may have some of that pushback against it. What did that feel like? What did that look like? And how did you maybe take that first step away from there?

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, I mean, you you really nailed what that is. It's an idea. It's a bad idea. It's a it's a wrong idea. It's this idea that if you are an introvert, if you're quieter by nature, that you can't be a leader. It's wrong. It's false. I mean, you look at some of the most prominent examples, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates. You know, I can't touch on political examples. You know, Abraham Lincoln, I go like a hundred plus years ago, you know, like a very famous introvert. Um, yeah. Trying to safe here. I'm sure I offended somebody. Um but but it's it's it, you know, how does it feel? It feels feels bad. It feels like, okay, well, there's something I want to do and I can't. It's super discouraging. And then, but I I also was aware uh uh simultaneously is that no, that's wrong. Like there's something in me also knew that this was wrong. And so it was sort of an internal tension. Like I would go so far as to take those tests and intentionally give the extroverted answer on the test because you know they're in my workplace, you know, and I'm a good test taker, so I know how to ace a test. And so as like, yes, I'm an extrovert. You know, it's like I'm kind of fooling myself. I just don't want anybody to know. Um, but it's just it's just wrong. And and so what eventually I I sort of, you know, like with enough success, I sort of felt validated in that direction. And then it's like, okay, I'm developing my own style. And and you you're talking about like people like this. It's half the population on on introversion tests on on Myers Briggs, it's it's 50-50 of people who are on one side or the other. Now, there are degrees of it. And, you know, there so but you uh what ends up happening is people are saying, well, I'm in the middle, so I'm okay. You know, the quiet part is it's so I'm okay. Like it, you know, it's okay um to be quiet. But but and all the all of these sentiments are based on myths and misconceptions about introverts, who will, you know, that you don't like people, um, that it means you can't be a leader, that you can't have impact, that you're you're you're shy. I mean, shy is is another big myth because introversion and shyness are you know are they different concepts. Like you can be a non-shy introvert. You're like you'd be super extroverted, you know, uh you're expend lots of energy in front of crowds and all these things, you know, have no fear about those things, but like after your allotment of time, you're burnt out, you're fried, you gotta go recharge. That's the introversion. That's has you know you know decoupled from shyness, although there's there's often overlap. And you know, I kind of have aspects of both. Um, so that's that's kind of my uh my initial journey out of that.

Jay Johnson:

I think that's so important. And I I kind of relate it back to something I experienced in in like third grade, I was told, Jay, mathematics is probably not your thing. And I believed that. Like for some reason, that stuck with me all the way through college. I ended up like deferring graduating my undergraduate because I was afraid to take the math proficiency exam. And at some point in time, uh, when I took the exam finally and I passed four levels above where I was supposed to, and I realized I was doing probability and statistics as a methodological, you know, behavioral researcher. Uh I kind of started to shed that idea that maybe I'm not bad at mathematics. And it sounds to me like maybe that's the first step for those that are in that introversion space that have felt that before, have felt like, well, I'm not a leader, I can't step up, I can't be outspoken, or uh maybe it is I'm feeling too shy. Maybe challenging that label to start off with is a great place to start. Um, because it sounds to me like when you stepped into your uh into your voice, into your authenticity, then maybe it made it a little easier for you to start navigating. Is is that what I'm getting from you, Greg?

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think there's for I've mentored lots of introverts in my career now. And and uh many of us follow a similar path where you there is some shyness and there there is apprehension. And um shyness, you know, we're talking about anxiety. Anxiety is 100% something that can be overcome. And the pathway is just gradual, gradual change. And you know, it's some it might start out like you might be overwhelmed in in talking in a in a in a small group. And so you push yourself a little bit. You you know, the next time there's an opportunity, you you encourage yourself to say something. And then it's from in front of a larger group and a larger group, and then a group with you know, big people, you know, stakeholders, you know, people, important people, and and then you know, there is an audience, and you know, so it all these are stair steps on a way to um gaining comfort. And I have on my my own podcast, I I have now I've talked to 50 people, and you know, 98% of them are introverts, and most of them started out in exactly the same place, you know, feeling shy. And and uh the majority of them are are speaking in front of audiences about a thousand people or you know, they're on these various um you know platforms. So all of those things are possible. It's it's a little bit of a long game um in in that respect. Um, so that's the that's the first thing. The second thing that I think is really uh critical to all of this is there has to be some kind of uh compelling sense of purpose because for someone who is shy, who is uncomfortable speaking up, uh there's you know, you need some kind of motivation that because you're gonna have to be uncomfortable. Uh, you know, you have to intentionally go into the discomfort, embrace the discomfort in the name of growth. And you're really only gonna do that if there's a compelling need that you see and a reason. And most of us, you know, if we if we find that, it's it's more than enough, you know, like to be able to help people, to be able to change the situation, to be able to grow, grow business, grow a career, support your family, like you name it, it's helps help people in society. Whatever it is for you, that's you know, we get caught in um our internal feelings with me or like, oh, I'm broken or defensive, you know, there's there's a lot of really vulnerable feelings. I mean, you feel bad, and we all feel them, you know, that this is what we all feel. Um, but sort of the the jujitsu move for quiet people, probably everybody, but is to turn the spotlight, you know, flip it 180 degrees, focus it on the person out there that you know you would like to help. So it's not about you anymore. And you know, these are things that have uh been helpful for a lot of people that I've talked to.

Jay Johnson:

Such great, such great tactics there. And you know, I think about this in terms of uh what you just said, I think is so powerful that sense of purpose or need, it often drives courage, right? Like even in in so many other things where uh like if I'm hungry, I may have the courage to do some things that I am not going to do if I wasn't starving or anything else. And I think about that, I I do a lot of like wilderness survival trips and I think about the courage I have when I start getting hungry. So it's almost like that need drives whatever kind of actions. I I really like that sense of purpose there. So, Greg, let's talk about shyness because and and as I shared with you before, most people would look at me as an extrovert. They would think that I am 100% at the extroverted scale, I'm on stages, um, they've seen me in a leadership capacity, a boardroom. I speak up, I usually act first. Sometimes I can be that leader that fills too much of the space. I've learned that and I've learned to take a step back from it. With that being said, no one would probably immediately classify me as shy for sure. And I don't feel shy, uh, but no one would really classify me as an introvert. But as I mentioned, once I get off the stage, once I'm I'm I'm done speaking or anything else, I have to retreat back to my cabin in the woods, nature, whatever it is, and really kind of center myself, bring myself back to like an energy level, an energy space where I can engage again. And it took me a long time to actually accept the idea of like maybe I'm not as extroverted as people think I am, or even that I've labeled myself, that I'm probably more towards the center. So let's do a little myth busting here. You mentioned a couple of them that, you know, introverts are shy, or, you know, that they feel like they can't step into leadership, et cetera. But what is it, uh, what is it about introversion? If you were to say, hey, this is probably a good indicator that you've got some introverted tendencies or that you could embrace those tendencies, how would you help maybe a young Jay Johnson who thought that they were supposed to be that extrovert, maybe see a little bit of that in themselves?

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, well, you know, the classic definition, introversion versus versus extroversion, is where does your energy go like initially? So in as you can imagine, introvert, you know, it's it goes inward. You know, the first instinct is to think, to feel, to kind of go into your go internal in order to understand a situation where wherever you are. And then uh, you know, I think of uh kids at kindergarten on the first day of school, like you the first kid runs up, sees the chaos, and like runs right into the middle of it, you know. And the second kid comes up and then they sit and you know, they're they're looking at all the stuff around, what's stuff on the walls, and they're looking at the kids and all this stuff, and then choosing where do they want to participate. And you know, when they're ready, they they kind of go into it. So that's that kind of gives you the the feel of it. Um and so that manifests in different ways. So um people who are more introverted do fantastic and one-on-one conversations, like you know, like this. Introts are great on podcasts, you know, you know, you know, like one-on-one conversations were great, small groups, great. Um you start to uh experience some challenges with larger groups, you know, with there's a lot more going on. And the reason is because so much is processed internally and really deeply. So you're you instead of just kind of understanding not just what people are saying, but maybe the moods, the facial expressions, all the stuff of three people, something our brains can handle, you know, 12 people suddenly we're we're trying to do too much. You know, it's it's that's that the tendency. And it's so what I find, what I have found is, you know, in these larger groups, you know, as I'm taking things in and doing this internal processing, um, the conversation has kind of moved on by the time I'm like, oh, you know, have uh uh something to contribute. And so that's I think that's a that's one really common experience that introverts would have.

Jay Johnson:

So from that, and let's let's dig into that because I it's so funny that you say that there is a number of times that even some of my VPs, as I mentioned, who are highly introverted, are like, oh, I was gonna say this during this, but it seemed like we moved on. Do you have a suggestion? If you're that introvert that has the idea, that wants to share it, conversation starts to move on. Like for me, I think about that in all of the ideas lost, all of the great comments that could have come or anything else. Maybe let's start with if you're the introvert that has that idea, should I maybe bring it up later? Should I speak it out? Should I write it down and bring it to the forefront? And then I'm gonna ask you if you're the X extroverted leader in the room, because I know that we're gonna have some extroverts listening to this. How do I help that introvert draw that out?

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, these are great, great questions. So depends on the situation, but I you know, I think we often think it's too late and it's it's not. Um so there you have a couple options. The first one, yeah, write it down. But then, you know, you you could raise your hand and say, look, look, I know I want to go back to this topic we were talking about over there because I think this is really, a really important point. Or if you feel like, okay, that moment is truly past, maybe it's a follow-up email or a Slack message. And by the way, you know, I did some more thinking on this and I just had this one point. I think it's important. You know, I just wanted to share it, something like that. So you you your influence, your leadership doesn't end in in that moment. You know, there are very few instances where, you know, like you can't go back and revisit something. And so it's it's a judgment call there. Um and you said extroverted leader. I mean, yes, extroverted leader, but I would just expand that to all leaders. All leaders should be thinking about okay, if this, you know, this is true. This is 50% of people and you know, are are on the quieter side. And you you we all know thinking on in the room, who's who do you know is always going to be talking, you're always gonna hear from, and who are you not gonna hear from? Well, everyone in that room is there for a reason. You've hired them, you're you count on them, you you want the best out of everyone in that room. So it's incumbent on you as a leader to create the space, knowing that people process information differently, they speak up differently, and like you know, these other people are just just as smart, you know, have just as many ideas to contribute, and you're not getting them if you're not creating the space for it. So, how do you do that? Uh, you know, it's preparation, you know, you you sending the agenda in advance, giving people who are quieter time to contribute and participate and and bring some of their thinking to the meeting. It's not always possible. There are topics, they're there are things in the moment. So then you can actually create more space in the meeting and say, like, oh, we've been talking about this for a while. What is what does Jay think? You know, Jay, what what do you think? You know, and you like you might and then that's where again introverts can participate in this and say, look, I'm still thinking this through. Uh do you mind if I send a follow-up email? Or, you know, I give me a few more minutes. I'm I'm still kind of thinking about this, uh, something like that. And it's um they can further help, you know, so that that technique there for an introvert is is called sharing what's going on in your brain. Because people don't know when you're doing a lot of thinking, you know, you're people aren't there with you. And so another common experience for um someone who's more internal introverts to not verbalizing all, you know, live for everyone to watch their thought process. They'll, you know, they'll be he, you know, well, here's the solution. And everyone's like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, what are you talking about? And you're like, well, you hadn't walked them through step A, B, C and D to show how you you got to that conclusion. So you have to share, you know, okay, this means that and that means that. And we've noticed these things. And that's why I'm I'm taking this. And people are like, oh yeah, you you have to bring them along. And so that that's another common fitfall for introverts.

Jay Johnson:

No, I and I love that because it the creating space has definitely been something I've tried to adopt into meetings. Like I will literally say, hey, I'm going to create a little bit of space here for everybody to think, ponder, and I'd love to hear from everybody in the group where you're, you know, what temperature it is, or you know, what the temperature on this decision is. And sometimes I think that temperature check has been a a saving grace because maybe they haven't gone all the way through. And but they're at least going to be comfortable enough to say, well, I'm probably a two out of five at this moment. That gives me the ability to say, okay, well, talk me through that. What does the two feel like to you or look at? Because one of the things that I realized that I was doing was I was probably a little bit too direct in the, okay, Greg, tell me what you're thinking right now. Okay, uh, Mark, tell me what you're thinking right now. And it was just like this, I'm not prepared to speak. So that the temperature check really kind of played a little bit better. Like, what are you feeling? Where are you at? So, Greg, let me let me ask this question. And I think that, you know, obviously we we've kind of talked a little bit about that sort of internal, should I speak? Should I not speak? Let's get to the should I lead or should I not lead? Because I think that that is I really honestly think that the world is better with introverted leaders. It's just true. Um, if it was all extroverted leaders, I think that there would be a lot less space for ideas, thoughts, and you know, sort of some of that deep thinking. How can we, as leaders, managers, HR representatives, how can we inspire maybe a little bit of that confidence? How can we encourage in a meaningful way that doesn't put an introverted, somebody who's feeling, you know, that introversion sort of like resistance? How do we encourage, inspire, and uh engage people to step into their introverted leadership?

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, it's a that's a really good question. I think that everybody is on some step on that path. You know, I was talking about there's there's a ladder up where you know at some point you're going to be uh comfortable speaking in the boardroom, like you're gonna be comfortable holding the space and you know, like uh, you know, getting the person who's who's stepping on your toes to back down and you know, holding, pulling space, staying calm, and then you know, still being your your introverted self or speaking in front of a thousand people, something like that. You know, so these are things that might seem impossible or don't you know just extremely daunting. And, you know, they though those were for me. Each of those things were very daunting for me. I would spend, you know, nights awake, you know, sweating in the bed, you know, thinking about, okay, I have to speak tomorrow tomorrow in front of the CEO and this, this other thing. And um, you know, these are those are with experience and you know, proving yourself and and just proving to yourself that, okay, these are just people, these are just situations and you know, tools to manage anxiety, you know, um, there's lots of things that you can do. But that's a long path. And so when you're talking to someone who's early on in that path, you know, part of it is just having that certainty and the knowledge that you're like you've shown flashes of this or that, you know, you have really important things to say, you're super thoughtful. So it's really about encouragement. Did you realize that you can do this also? Like that this could be something that you can do. And it's just like opening their minds to that or pointing them to resources and you know, like, oh, you remind me of so-and-so, you know, when they do that, that or and and also like it, especially if you're look if you are a person like that, you know, that you you can offer your experience. But if not, you could encourage some then, someone to find a mentor who is more like that, who has followed more of that path. And um, so that's those are some things that that I've done or that I've had colleagues say, like, oh, you know, you know, you should talk to Brad about this, you know, like he's maybe gone through certain similar things.

Jay Johnson:

I I love that. And it reminded it actually reminded me sort of the pathway of growth um for one of my VPs, her name's Stephanie, and I'm gonna give her a ton of credit. We were part of an organization together. And I mean, the first time that she introduced herself, it was, hi, my name's Stephanie, and that was it, and sat down. And, you know, big uh anxiety about public speaking and just kind of speaking in a group. And over the course of time, and I saw this, it was incremental. She got more comfortable introducing herself, got more comfortable with the group, took on a secretary position the following year on the board because there was no speech, took on an associate position because there was no speech. And then finally somebody had said, Well, why don't you take on a VP position? And it was a one-minute, you know, speech that she had to give. And she was like, I can do that. But I saw this incremental until she became president, until she served on a state board, and now she's the vice president of all of branding and everything. But it was this incremental process of sort of like, I dip my, it was almost the hokey pokey, right? Right hand in, right hand out. And then until all of a sudden there was this comfortability. And I would still not say that there's and maybe let's let's because I want to dig into this, because I bet you that there are some introverts out there that are like, I've put my hand in, I've put my hand out, and I'm still not comfortable giving a speech in public. I'm still not comfortable stepping up. How do you continue to encourage maybe somebody that has felt like they've stepped out there or anything else, but they don't feel like they're comfortable or they haven't completely gotten rid of the anxiety of speaking in public? Because I think sometimes we just want, hey, one day this will just go away. And it's probably not gonna happen. So how do you encourage them to keep going?

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, well, that hasn't completely gone away for me either. You know, but it, you know, I think there are, yeah, there definitely is this view, like, you know, I am not I am not a leader because I still feel some anxiety. That's it's a terrible idea. It's just wrong, flat, wrong idea. Like I guarantee you when, you know, the anytime someone goes on stage, I mean, there's you know, there's entertainers, you know, there's there's been very introverted entertainers, people who deal with some level of fear. I mean, I go back to, you know, physiologically, you can't distinguish, the body can't distinguish between excitement and fear. So one of the tricks I've heard people say, you know, is like, well, I I'm just very excited. Um the other part that, you know, where I've personally come to is just like, oh, hello fear. There's there's fear here, you know, this is coming up, and you know, it's my body's reaction. And I know from doing this so many times, like, like, all right, you know, this is this is what happens at this point, and I'm gonna start talking and I'm gonna do it, and you know, people are gonna laugh and and it's gonna go on and and it's gonna be great. And I don't get to the good stuff unless I get over that that hump there, work around the fear. But it's always get it always does diminish, it always gets smaller. But I would just say don't expect it to go away.

Jay Johnson:

Yeah. Uh and I like how you said that hello, fear, you know, almost making it like this is the co-pilot. This is part of the person that's gonna jump on the bus, be on the journey with me. And it's okay. I'm just gonna let them stay in the passenger seat and I'm gonna kind of keep driving. So what a neat way to frame that. And I I do agree physiologically, you know, just from a from the behavioral science side, uh, sweaty palms, heart rate elevated, uh, you know, different uh fluctuations in skin and breathing, etc., that can be excitement and it can be anxiety. And the reality is the body does experience those things in very similar ways. So I I I'm I'm loving how this is shaping how we might be able to engage, how we might be able to engage if we are feeling some of those introverted things. Let's let's go back because I think it is one of those things that's super important. What should a good leader be looking for? And what do I mean by this? Is none of us wear like a scarlet E extroverted or I introverted. How should a leader be thinking about their teams, their space? What should I what should a leader be looking for in order to make sure that I'm creating the conditions of space, of comfortability, and for people to step into their authenticity?

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, I just one note, and one of the things that you want as a leader is you want diversity in general, diversity of thought, diversity of personalities, styles, um, diversity of perspectives. Because through that richness, you get variety, and you know, it's it's diversity makes the you know you know healthier. It it it I mean, to biologically, you as you you you must know, yeah, like the the more diversity of the gene pool and that all that, you know, you just it's just creates a healthier organism. And so you want that for your team, and so you're selecting for that. And so what we're talking about now is about then, how do you make sure that you're you're creating that space? And um I I think it's it's planning ahead. I think it's you know, in your you're in one-on-ones with people understanding where they're coming from. You know, are they comfortable contributing? Do they feel like they're contributing, you know, the most they could? Can you start? You you know, I think a lot of uh uh introverts haven't received the instruction manual yet. And and so, you know, they they may not realize that, okay, I'm I'm trying to match this ideal and beyond, you know, come up with my best ideas on the spot instead of honoring where they're gonna make the best contributions. Maybe it's when they take a beat or they create some time or space for themselves. So um it's encouraging people to um to self-manage to get the best uh out of themselves that they can and bring the best of themselves to work. And then then I think it's the you know, it's uh when there are meetings, um, you know, when there are deadlines and projects um and and meetings, are you giving people the time to prepare and the space in the the meetings to um uh to make those contributions? And I I just want to say that uh as attuned to this as I am, I have found myself doing the same exact thing and taking up too much space in those meetings. You know, it's it's it's just I think it's uh temptation of the role. Or, you know, you you get on a roll and you're you know, you and you you forget, you know, you get distracted and you you don't remember, okay. Have I heard from everybody here? Like have I created this space for everybody here? So anyone is susceptible to that. It's just takes it's an intentional act as a leader to make sure that you're you're still doing that.

Jay Johnson:

I love that. So taking a step back, pausing and just asking ourselves, are we creating space? Often can be the way for us to create space or to to kind of re-engage. Greg, you had mentioned that there were some books that were uh inspirational for you on your journey. Is there any particular one, one or two or three that you would love to share? Because I want those introverts out there to step in. And I know sometimes research and me search is a really powerful vehicle for that.

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, well, I've heard time and time again. This was the one that did this for me. So it's Quiet by Susan Kane. Uh, the subtitle is great, the The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking. So that's this is the book. Um so many of the people I've interviewed on my podcast have said that reading this book was a sea change in their life. It it gave them a feeling of understanding, acceptance. There are a number of ideas. There, there's one in particular I didn't touch on. It's super critical for me, and just in my uh mental makeup here, is that uh introvert, our attitudes toward introversion are cultural. They're culturally based. And even in the United States, you go back to the 1800s, we did not value extroverts over introverts. It was sort of like the we were in agrarian side society, small towns, and the the quiet, upstanding citizen was was was the ideal. It only really shifted in the industrial revolution. You go to Japan, Asia, this is this is flipped on its head. You know, the the person who's out, you know, speaking their mind and you know, running at the mouth is considered a fool, and white one is wise. How do we know he's wise? He hasn't said anything, but you know, like it's but that's the cultural idea. So I mean, you know, wisdom could come from anywhere, but it's you know, like you we we just are out of balance with where we're looking for it.

Jay Johnson:

Love that. Well, and it it is fascinating to me you'd mentioned that because I've seen different organizations where the culture really drove sort of the idea of whether or not quiet or whether, you know, sort of like boisterous, loud, outgoing extroversion was the preferred norm. So I think that that there's a lesson there in and of itself for every one of you leaders out there is what culture are you creating? What are you rewarding? Are you rewarding or creating the conditions for quiet wisdom, reflection, which I I think is one of the most important things for leaders to do? And we can't do that unless we actually quiet ourselves or quiet our mind and listening, all of which, you know, are can be really powerful, powerful behaviors within a culture. Awesome. Is there any other books that you would share, Greg?

Greg Weinger:

Um, I I would just say just uh seek out that one um just to start with and um go from there. I haven't written my books that yet, so uh so I can't plug that.

Jay Johnson:

We'll be watching my podcast. Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm gonna ask you about your podcast. We'll be watching for that book to come out, Greg. And when you when it does, I'm definitely gonna invite you back. Um, you've got a podcast that is focused for introverts and leaders. Can you just tell our audience a little bit about that? I always love sharing powerful podcasts that help the audience in whatever journey that they're on. So talk a little bit about that and maybe how might the audience get in touch with you if they wanted to reach out.

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, it's called the Powerful Introvert Podcast. And the name came to me, uh a uh colleague used that to describe me, and I was like, oh, I like that. Um, but it's it's intended uh like kind of like I described before. It's it's what would I have wanted to known kind of entering in on my leadership journey. So um it's lessons, it's resources, it's I've I speak to coaches, communications experts, authors, academics, um, people who are you know just interested in writing about the subject, you know, powerful introverts in themselves. I, you know, I had a six-time boxing champion come in. He's an introvert. Yeah, he's fantastic. That episode is coming out um this week. Um, but I speak to to wonderful people, and I I personally find it very inspiring to see people who are introverted and going out and doing amazing things. Um so it's everywhere you find podcasts, Spotify, Apple, YouTube. And um, yeah, just if you search for powerful introvert, you'll find it.

Jay Johnson:

We'll get the links out on that. And you are are you active on LinkedIn, Greg?

Greg Weinger:

I am, yeah. So I I am too. So that is yeah, Gregory Weinger on LinkedIn. Um, I'm happy to hear from you.

Jay Johnson:

Excellent. So we'll get that in the show notes too. Greg, I want to say thank you so much for taking the time to be here. This is a topic I think is so important, as you mentioned, 50% of the population. Um, and you know, it's one of those things where I think there are so many ideas and opportunities that are lost because space is not created for introverts to bring their authentic self and the psychological safety needed for them to bring their authentic self to work. So I think that this is a timely and exceptionally important topic and really appreciate the insights and wisdom that you brought to the conversation. So thank you.

Greg Weinger:

Yeah, thank you. And thank you for the excellent work you're doing here, Jay. Um, I really appreciate um the opportunity to be here. Awesome.

Jay Johnson:

Well, thanks, Greg. And uh thank you, audience, for tuning into this episode of the Talent Forge, where together we are shaping workforce behaviors.

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Jay Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements

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