The Talent Forge: Shaping Workforce Behaviors with Jay Johnson
Welcome to The Talent Forge: Shaping Workforce Behavior with Jay Johnson — the podcast where behavioral science meets the day-to-day challenges of leadership and talent development.
Each week, Jay Johnson, behavioral architect, two-time TEDx speaker, and corporate trainer, brings you bold conversations and tactical insights to help organizations develop better managers, improve communication, and shape workplace behavior that drives results.
Whether you're an emerging leader, a C-suite executive, an operations manager, or an individual seeking growth, this show delivers behavior-based strategies that stick. Jay and experts in the field come together to share a behind-the-scenes look at the tools that build high-performing teams, reduce burnout, and foster cultures of accountability and trust.
From leadership development and management coaching to behavioral intelligence and culture transformation, you'll walk away with actionable tools to improve your people, processes, and performance.
This isn’t theory. This is real-world behavior, transformed. Welcome to the Forge.
Interested in being a guest? Please contact Madison Bennett via email (madison@coeuscreativegroup.com).
The Talent Forge: Shaping Workforce Behaviors with Jay Johnson
The Little White Lie: "I'm Fine"
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“I’m fine” might be the most polished sentence in the workplace and one of the least honest. We dig into the quiet reality behind that answer: it’s often a containment strategy that helps us avoid conflict, stay “professional,” and keep moving even when something actually landed wrong. The problem is simple and brutal: what we refuse to name doesn’t disappear. It leaks into behavior. Emails get shorter, cameras stay off, meetings go silent, sarcasm gets sharper, and high performers start over-functioning their way toward burnout.
You’ll leave with practical scripts and leadership tools you can use immediately: cleaner, smaller truths like “I’m still processing,” “I’m overloaded,” or “I need clarity,” plus a clear distinction between valid feelings and accountable behavior. If you lead a team, we also share ways to notice mismatches gently, create an opening without interrogation, and build shared language that makes repair easier under pressure. If this helped you, subscribe, share it with a teammate, and leave a review. What’s a better alternative to “I’m fine” that you wish your workplace normalized?
Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com
The Lie We Normalize At Work
Jay JohnsonHello, friends. I am so glad you're here. Today we're going to talk about lies. Yeah, that's right. Lies, the common lies we all tell at work. Honestly, this may be one of the most common lies we even tell in life. It's short, it's clean, it's totally socially acceptable. And most of us have used it so many times that we don't even hear ourselves saying it anymore. I'm fine. Or maybe even it's the slightly more modern version. I'm doing okay. Which, depending on tone, can mean anything from I'm genuinely stable and well regulated to if one more person asks me for something today, I may walk into the woods and start a new life under an assumed name. And that is what we're going to sit with today. Not because every I'm fine is dishonest. Sometimes you really are fine. Sometimes you may be doing okay. Sometimes the meeting really was productive. The feedback did land well, and your nervous system's not secretly trying to exit through the nearest window. But a lot of the time, I'm fine is not emotionally truthful. It's a containment strategy. It's a way of saying, I don't want to get into this right now. I don't want to make this bigger than what it is. I don't want to seem needy. I don't want to burden you. I don't want to admit this affected me. I don't want to lose control. And I certainly don't want to find out what happens if I tell the truth. And in their workplace, that can seem mature. It may even be feel professional or controlled. But here's the problem whatever we refuse to name doesn't disappear. It leaks. And usually it leaks as behavior. I always say if we're not talking it out, we're probably going to be acting it out. And that's the main idea for today: the unspoken emotion becoming the visible behavior. The body keeps the score, as uh the well-documented book suggests. And even when the mouth might say it's all good, there's probably something beneath this. We know this, we've seen it, we've lived it. Someone may say they're fine, but their emails get shorter. They say they're okay and they stop contributing in the meeting or completely withdraw. They say no worries, but then suddenly there seems to be a lot of worries. They say it's not a big deal, but now they're strangely unavailable, formal, or even responding with the emotional warmth of a parking ticket. That's
When Unspoken Feelings Leak Out
Jay Johnsonthe fine lie. It's not malicious. Most of the time, like I said, it's protective. It's a behavior people use when they don't feel safe, ready, skilled, or even permitted to say what's actually happening. And leaders need to understand this because teams don't always communicate through their words. They communicate through patterns. Tone, withdrawal, sarcasm, overfunctioning, silence, all of that is data. A sudden shift in someone's normal behavior is data. Doesn't mean you know exactly what's going on, but it does mean that it's something worth noticing, taking a step back. So let's talk about what the fine lie looks like. Sometimes it looks like force positivity. Someone might be frustrated, but they smile and say, Nope, all good here. And that all good has the energy of a hostage video. Everyone in a room knows it's not all good, but now the team has to decide whether to play along with the performance, open Pandora's box, and what do we do? Most teams end up playing along because that just seems easier. Easier is not always healthier. Sometimes that fine might come across as sarcasm. May say they're okay, but then
How “Fine” Shows Up On Teams
Jay Johnsonevery comment has a little tiny blade in it. Sure, great idea. Ooh, I love that for us. Oh, we're changing direction again. Awesome. And listen, I appreciate sarcasm as much as the next person. Sarcasm is basically the seasoning salt of workplace frustration. A little can be funny, too much, and the whole meal ends up tasting like resentment. So sometimes the fine lie can look like withdrawal. That person who used to be really energetic and engaging all of a sudden goes quiet or stops engaging. They keep their camera off, they answer only what's asked, or they stop volunteering ideas. Present, but not really available. Sometimes fine can look like overfunctioning. Now, this is the sneaky one. Some people don't collapse when they're not fine. They produce, they take on more, they become even more useful, they smile and say, I've got it, and then quietly build resentment museum ride inside of their own chest. You can visit it after hours, admissions free, but emotionally expensive. That pattern is dangerous because the workplace often rewards it. We praise that person who keeps saying yes, pushing through, never complaining, and then we act surprised when they burn out, detach, or finally say something with seven years of emotional interest attached to it. They hold on to it. So why do we all do this? Why do so many people say I'm fine when they're not? Part of it's social conditioning. At work, many of us have learned that emotions can be risky. Not all emotions, of course, but some emotions are allowed enthusiasm, gratitude, calm, confidence, uh, even light humor. But hurt, fear, embarrassment, resentment, loneliness, disappointment, those are a little harder. So people end up editing it, they translate, they take a real feeling and convert it into something that is more acceptable. I feel hurt
Why We Hide The Real Answer
Jay Johnsonbecomes it's fine. I feel overwhelmed becomes I'm just busy right now. I feel excluded becomes no worries. I feel resentful becomes whatever works. The second reason this occurs is identity. A lot of people have built an identity around being strong, capable, easy to work with, low maintenance, or resilient. And I get that. There's a pride in being steady. I know this personally. But sometimes we confuse that emotional honesty with emotional instability, and they're not the same. Saying that affected me is not the same as losing control. Sharing that you're frustrated is not the same as attacking somebody or you know, blaming somebody. Saying I need some clarity is not the same as coming across as needy. Emotional honesty is not emotional chaos. In fact, emotional honesty is often what prevents chaos. Because when we don't name things early, they tend to grow and they tend to grow teeth. A small disappointment can become distance, frustration, contempt, misunderstanding becomes a story, resentment becomes a whole leadership and burnout development program later on. Yes, I'm aware that some of us have built careers on that last one, present company included. But this is really important that we address in the workplace. And if we're not considering this, you know, background reason, it's probably something that continues to go undiscussed. Now, the third reason this occurs is safety. People say, I'm fine, when they don't want to trust what will happen if they say something else. Maybe they've learned that honesty gets dismissed or feedback gets defensive or vulnerability gets used against them. Perhaps they've learned that if they admit they're struggling, someone will question their competence. So they choose a safer sentence, which is often I'm fine. And here is where leadership matters. The goal is not to force people to disclose everything. Work is not group therapy. And nobody needs to walk into a Monday meeting and say, before we review the dashboard, I'd like to unpack my abandonment wound. That's please don't. We have HR uh episodes for that. We all have objectives, customers, work to do, clients to engage. The workplace doesn't need silence when it comes to some of that emotional truth. Okay. We are human, and sometimes we have to be open about that. Sometimes we have to have enough truth to just say, hey, I'm overloaded, unclear, frustrated. I need a reset. I disagree. I need help. I'm not okay with how that landed. This is not therapy. This is operational maturity. And sometimes, while it can feel like conflict, conflict is not the enemy. And that's a big part of creating psychological safety in the workplace, is to help understand that when we express our authentic selves, it's not something that should be diminished and or pushed away. Emotions already exist. The only question is whether they're named directly or acted out indirectly. Indirect emotion is expensive. This is where we see things like rework, avoidance, disengagement, people leaving positions, people not stepping up, gossip, passive resistance. It often shows up as the person who says yes in a room and then slows everything down outside of the room. So what do we do with this? Well, how do we work with defined lie in a way that's practical, human, and well, quite frankly, not weird? I'm gonna offer a couple of moves here. The first move is to tell a more accurate truth. You don't have to necessarily tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And I don't mean to say, yes, go out and lie. This is important. Some people avoid emotional honesty because they think the only alternative to I'm fine is a full emotional documentary disclosure. It's not. You can tell a small, cleaner truth here. Instead
Tell A Cleaner More Accurate Truth
Jay Johnsonof I'm fine, try something like I'm still processing. I'm a little frustrated, but I can talk, I can't talk about it right now. I'm not ready to respond yet. I'd like a little time to go through my thoughts. I'm okay, but I am gonna need some clarity later. I'm disappointed, but I really want to stay constructive on our future approach. I'm really feeling overloaded today, so I'm gonna need some help prioritizing or really digging in and focusing. This is the sweet spot. All right. It's not pretending, it's not flooding, it's just honest enough. That phrase matters, honest enough. You don't have to bleed on the conference table, all right? You just have to stop pretending you're not carrying anything inside. Oftentimes, when we're open to disclosing a small portion, people naturally do want to help. They want to be supportive, they want to be caring, compassionate individuals. This might open some of the door to create the conditions of us being able to have some of the larger conversations about what's really going on underneath. Now, the second move here is to separate feelings from behaviors. This is one of the most important pieces. Your feeling is valid, but we are accountable to our behaviors. We can feel frustrated, but we don't have to be cruel or disrespectful. We can be hurt, but we don't need to get into manipulation and or uh you know some kind of gossip. We can be overwhelmed, but we don't need to disappear without speaking of truth. You can be disappointed, and we don't have to punish people with silence. The distinction here is leadership. Emotional
Feelings Are Valid Behaviors Are Choices
Jay Johnsonhonesty is not a permission slip for emotional immaturity, it's the opposite. It allows us to say, here's what I'm feeling, here's how I'm gonna handle it responsibly. That's powerful. For example, I'm frustrated and I don't want that to come out sideways. Can we reset some expectations? Or I felt dismissed in that meeting, and I want to check whether or not that was your intent before I build my own story around. This is adult communication, it's relationship management, and it leads to positive behavioral change. Now, the third move here is to really be observant and watching for leakage. I know that's a funny word. We use it all the time in body language, but leakage is the unintended communication of what is happening at that emotional level. Now, if you're not sure what you're feeling, look at what you're doing. Are you getting shorter? Are you avoiding? Are you rewriting a simple email like it's a negotiation? Are you suddenly irritated by things that normally wouldn't bother you? Are you fantasizing about quitting, moving to a cabin, communicating only with birds? Again, no judgment here. But behavior's data. Ask yourself, what might this behavior be carrying? Now that question is really useful. It's not what's wrong with me, it's not why am I like this. It's what might this behavior be carrying? Maybe the sharp tones carrying some fear, or the withdrawal is carrying some hurt. Maybe sarcasm is carrying a little bit of resentment. Once you can see what the behavior is carrying, you have a better chance of choosing a different response. And that's the key here, folks. Behavior is a choice, and how we choose to show up will determine our success and failure. Now, the fourth move here is for you leaders out there. Do not accept fine too quickly when the behavior says otherwise. That doesn't mean interrogation, don't shine the light in our eyes and start asking the you know deeper questions there. It means gently notice the mismatch. Here's a couple of phrases that you can incorporate into your leadership vernacular. The first one, I hear you saying you're fine, but I've also noticed you've been a little quieter than usual. I don't want to force a conversation, but I want to check in with you. How are you doing, really? Or I'm not asking you to process this right now, but I want
How Leaders Respond When “Fine” Is Off
Jay Johnsonto make sure we have space to talk if something really is upsetting. So just know that I'm there for you and that I see Okay, business leadership. You're not diagnosing, not cornering, you're creating an opening. If they still continue along with no, I'm fine, then please respect that. But you have signaled something important that you are paying attention and not just listening to the words, but looking at a deeper pattern. The fifth and final move here is to create language before people need it. Teams do better when they have agreed upon phrases for emotional honesty, not for medical phrases. Simple ones. I need a reset, I need clarity, matter capacity. These phrases matter because they make honesty easier. And behavior that is easy is more likely to happen under pressure. We know that from behavioral science. If it's easy, we do it, if it's memorable, we'll bring it up to the surface. If it's hard, complicated, well, guess what? It's probably gonna go by the wayside. So if the only language people have is I'm fine, well, that's what they're gonna use because it's easy. Give them better language. Now, this
Build Shared Language And Repair Fast
Jay Johnsonis where we want to make sure that we are repairing and utilizing strong language when we create conditions for repair. Here's a couple of examples of that. Hey, I said I was fine earlier, but I realized I was more frustrated than I admitted. I don't like how that came out, and I really want to take a reset. Or I got quiet after that conversation. And the reality is, is that was me withdrawing. You're not imagining things. I want to come back and talk it through. This repair, once we've said I'm fine and move on, is such an important aspect of that relationship management. One of the things that Francesca and I talk about is telling on ourselves. What are we doing here? We're actually bringing out what is that underlying aspect that was sitting beneath and that wasn't coming into uh wasn't coming into the conversation. This isn't to shame it, it's to bring awareness to it, it's to study it. When you hear yourself say something like, I'm fine, pause internally and ask, is that really true? Or was that convenience speaking? If it's convenient, work towards finding a more accurate sentence. Not the whole emotional novel, maybe just one honest line. I need some time. I'm frustrated, but I want to stay constructive. That affected me more than I expected. Start there. Better behavior starts with better honesty. Better honesty doesn't mean saying everything, it means saying enough truth that your behavior does not have to carry what your brief words refuse to name. That's how we reduce leakage, that's how we build trust, and that is how we lead ourselves before we try leading anyone else. This is how we shape behavior. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode. And when I ask you how you're doing, I better not hear. I'm fine, Jay. Look forward to hearing you and seeing you in our next episode. Talk to you soon and be well.